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Hurricane Prep: Multiple lines on little cleats?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/24/2011 : 18:59:02

I think I am going to have to leave my boat in the water when Irene passes through. Fortunately I am on a floating dock with a vacant slip next to me, and we are pretty far inland on the river (though with more westward fetch than I would like). I plan to move my boat over to take up both slips between the finger piers.

My C250 has one cleat on each side at the stern (the standard stock locations). Currently I have two loops over each cleat - one for spring line, and the other for stern line. I'd like to double up these lines, but can't fit four loops over each cleat. I have a midships cleat on the port genoa track, but I do not want to use it because I do not think it is secure enough.

Do any of you have any creative ideas on how to overcome the limited number of cleats at the stern?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - on

gpc
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 08/24/2011 : 19:37:46

Thanks for the post Rick, I was thinking the same thing. I plan to head down tomorrow to batten down the hatches. I am assuming you are happy you added an automatic bilge pump.

Edited by - gpc on 08/24/2011 19:41:19

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/24/2011 : 20:04:32

Sails off, gear stowed or removed and hope that the center cleat holds this time as well as in the past. My bigger concern, being on a mooring, is that someone else will break loose and will start a chain reaction after hitting another boat, breaking it loose from it's mooring . . .

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 08/24/2011 : 22:29:49

Hear here. Our floating docks are designed to survive with two boats each in a hurricane. Each end has a double helix with, what looks to be 1" line. The association requires that all boaters remove biminis and dodgers, and headsails. Loose items and hanging items are to be removed. Boats must be double tied to the cleats, and to the anchor loops holding the floating docks to the 1" line. I'm going to retrieve items I can use at home as well like my propane/butane stove, my LED lighting, my inverters, three day cooler and 12V fan.

I plan on turn the boats in opposite directions so our rigs will not clash or smash together.

Looking at the predictions, a shot into NYC or slightly west of there will blast my area with the NE quadrant winds which could up to 50 mph stronger than normal out of the south. That'll blow my garage doors in. If the storm passes overhead, the winds will go east for several hours, then west. This could blow out my windows. If the storm passes to the east (New London, Newport), we should be spared the worst and see a northerly wind. I am windowless on the north side.

The local weather forecaster, who is a fixture in CT, says he thinks it will go west of the area. There go my garage doors. I've already informed my manager that there's a good chance I'll be out of the office on Mon/Tue. But so will he.

Hopeful that the docks will hold.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 06:56:06

So It looks like this is going to be a big hit for us on Long Island/Conn. so I would like to ask the more seasoned members here as to what they would do.............Do you think I should double reef?

This is really messing up my vacation for starters. This is also why I shell out the big bucks for a well protected slip in a Brewers owned Marina. Wave action is a non issue for me so I will have to deal with the wind and surge only. I don't have any boats on ether side of me ( Thanks to the economy) so I have many cleats to tie to. Do all the usual,Sails off,add 1/2in. lines, Bimini off, Duck tape the hatch boards, Photo everything for Insurance etc. and hope for the best.Peter,Any chance of getting a transient slip in a marina? Bruce, Riding this out up the river is not worth risking your life over. Think about it. If you started to drag what do you really think that 9.9hp is going to do against 100mph wind. Any kind of rescue will be non existent. Its only a boat that can be replaced. I wish everybody that is going to be affected by this GOOD LUCK!

Edited by - islander on 08/25/2011 07:17:37

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 07:15:45

The storm surge along the east coast will depend on the wind direction and strength. Here is Weather Underground's storm surge maps <ul><li> [url="http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/GASCNCSurge.asp "]for NC[/url] </li><li> [url="http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/MidAtlSurge.asp"]for VA, MD, DE, NJ, and NY[/url] </li><li> [url="http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/NewEngSurge.asp"]for CT, RI , and MA[/url] </li></ul>
I see that a category 2 hurricane hitting the Chesapeake Bay would give the central Bay a 6' to 10' storm surge. A category 3 storm would give a 9' to 14' storm surge. We have fixed docks and short 5' pilings.

Yesterday I went out for a daysail in the great South breeze of 10-15 knots with gusts to 25, and then got the boat ready for being hauled out. I stripped my boat of mainsail & boom, outboard, lifering and lifesling, rudder and tiller, and it will be hauled into the parking lot tomorrow to sit on jack stands. The rudder and outboard would be totaled if the boat falls off the stands, in the worst case scenario, so I took them off.

Good luck to the east coast Catalina sailors!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 08:27:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 ...Do any of you have any creative ideas on how to overcome the limited number of cleats at the stern?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Back to my original question, someone on another message board recommended running my spring lines to the cabintop winches instead of the stern cleats. Do any of you have experience with that? Are they well enough secured, or would they risk pulling out under the loads?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 08:34:26

Be sure to put the boom below also. Take home EVERYTHING you don't want to lose, including sails and outboard. Double up the lines. Use the midship cleat for your springline to free up the bow and stern cleats for dock lines. Use snubbers to soften the shock loads.
If your springline extends out from a mid finger cleat on the dock, put the stern portion over a genoa winch and run the bow portion through your bow eye to a cleat on the other side of the dock if possible. Just a thought.
If you don't trust the midship cleat or cabin top winches, run the springlines through the center hole in your bow and stern cleats and tie off with a bowline leaving the loop large enough so you can still get double dock lines on the cleats. Again, just a thought since I've never had to go through this ordeal myself.
Good luck to all of you on the east coast!

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/25/2011 08:44:42

JohnP
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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 08:44:52

Maybe you need to re-post in the C250 forum with a specific title about your cabintop winch strength.

I would suggest that as many lines as possible on the cleats on the deck, coaming, cabintop and genoa track should be used. If one line chafes through there would be a backup for each.

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 09:31:17

It's days like this makes happy that I live in Florida and don't have to worry about Hurricanes like y'all up in the NE

Not knowing the C250 that well, so take this for what it's worth...In these situations, I only use my winches as a last resort or as a secondary tie down i.e. no strain and a back-up if the primary (doubled line) lines break. I echo JohnP and recommend re-posting in the C250 forum.

Good luck to you guys, hope I don't see any damage reports on the forum...(or totaled boats being parted out in the swap meet forum)

Stay Safe, you can replace a boat, but your love ones can't replace you.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 10:02:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Hear here. Our floating docks are designed to survive with two boats each in a hurricane. Each end has a double helix with, what looks to be 1" line. The association requires that all boaters remove biminis and dodgers, and headsails. Loose items and hanging items are to be removed. Boats must be double tied to the cleats, and to the anchor loops holding the floating docks to the 1" line. I'm going to retrieve items I can use at home as well like my propane/butane stove, my LED lighting, my inverters, three day cooler and 12V fan.

I plan on turn the boats in opposite directions so our rigs will not clash or smash together.

Looking at the predictions, a shot into NYC or slightly west of there will blast my area with the NE quadrant winds which could up to 50 mph stronger than normal out of the south. That'll blow my garage doors in. If the storm passes overhead, the winds will go east for several hours, then west. This could blow out my windows. If the storm passes to the east (New London, Newport), we should be spared the worst and see a northerly wind. I am windowless on the north side.

The local weather forecaster, who is a fixture in CT, says he thinks it will go west of the area. There go my garage doors. I've already informed my manager that there's a good chance I'll be out of the office on Mon/Tue. But so will he.

Hopeful that the docks will hold.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Keep in mind, if the garage doors blow in it is much more likely you will lose the garage ceiling and possibly the roof of your house. Once wind gets inside an enclosed area things start coming apart pretty quickly. This is one reason why you see so many people boarding up their windows too.

I'd recommend you add several 6' or 8' 2x4's on edge vertically to your garage doors after you get the cars in for the final time. That will help stiffen them so they won't blow in. You could nail several short 2x4's laying flat to the garage floor and run additional 2x4's braces from the garage door to the pieces nailed to the floor.

An easier way to do it might be to add the verticals I mentioned and just back the cars against the inside of the doors with something to protect the paint from the doors moving around.

During Ike we had 80-90 mph winds blowing directly against the garage doors and they held up fine. Unfortunately a portion of the roof didn't.

Not trying to scare anyone or speak doom and gloom. Just trying to pass along some things I've heard and learned over the years.

Edited by - GaryB on 08/25/2011 17:21:53

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 18:23:50

Back on the subject of dock-lines, I've concluded that twisted nylon is significantly better at absorbing little shocks from the movement of the boat, absent any snubbers. I use my leftover Dacron double-braid for easy tying up at other docks, but I now have mostly nylon lines pre-set in my slip. I don't get much significant wave action except the occasional wake, but the wind can move the boat around.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 19:56:58

Well, I decided to get serious today and bought 6 snubbers from WM. If I had planned ahead I could have gotten them elsewhere online for a lot less, but oh well. I've been really concerned about my little nylon cleats pulling off the boat, and while snubbers are no guarantee, they are my best shot at avoiding it. Plus, with the snubber I can use 1/2" double braided line instead of the more stretchy 3/8" triple twist nylon. I can't really go larger than 1/2" anyway because it won't fit under the horns of the cleat.

I called the marina today and they were pretty laid back about all this. They said to just double up lines. They said that a lot of boats are coming into the marina from shore points to wait out the storm. I just hope what I'm doing will be sufficient. Nothing I do can prevent another boat from crashing into me, or debris floating in.

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/25/2011 20:03:42

Voyager
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Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 20:42:17

I've got some 3/8" nylon lines I can tie between the mast and the dock just in case. I will remove the boom, as well as all the gear I've accumulated over the years. No fears of me staying on the boat in the storm -- I plan to hunker down at the house and watch my garage doors.
Funny thing, however. Each time I check the path of the storm, first it's west of NYC, then east of New Havem, then west, then east. I guess only time will tell.

I'm planning to stay put in thje harbor, but I'm hopeful none of the nearby boats will get loose, or worse, some of the poorly maintained slips break off, where a finger might come loose with 12-16 boats in tow! Now that would make a pretty sick sound when it crashed.

I'll take lots of pictures.

Edited by - Voyager on 08/25/2011 20:44:35

redeye
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 03:52:36

I've added more cleats, and I thought there was nothing to it. Buy the cleats, buy the bolts and nuts. Mark the location and drill two holes and drop them in and tighten the nuts. I know nothing of a 250, for all I know there is no room for one.

You can remove and fill the holes later, or drill out the holes, refill with resin and rebed the cleats better later.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 04:55:32

<< makes happy that I live in Florida >>

Now that's funny!! But Tom... share more of the local lore of how to ride out a storm. The best one I just heard from a Floridian ( for a power boat )..

Pull the boat, and fill it with water!

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 05:19:42

I called the marina today and they were pretty laid back about all this. They said to just double up lines

This is because they don't care about your boat, Only their docks. Most Marinas have it in there agreement with you that you are responsible for any damages your boat may cause to there docks. They are covered, We/you are the ones taking the risk.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 06:11:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 I called the marina today and they were pretty laid back about all this. They said to just double up lines

This is because they don't care about your boat, Only their docks. Most Marinas have it in there agreement with you that you are responsible for any damages your boat may cause to there docks. They are covered, We/you are the ones taking the risk.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I realized when I posted that that it is not a good thing that they are so laid back. However, they are laid back about everything. Their contract ([url="http://delawarerivermarina.com/marina_lease.pdf"]click here to see it[/url]) is very short and simple. It does say that they are not responsible for damage to my boat, but it says nothing about me being responsible for damage to their docks. However, I expect that would go without saying, since I am automatically liable for damage to others' property.

I went down to the boat just before sunset yesterday just to get the lay of the land and confirm that I still have an empty slip next to me (which I plan to use for extra space). It was eerily calm. All the sailboats still have their sails on furlers. Nobody was doing anything special. I hope that changes today, because I don't want other boats drifting into mine.

This marina is right out in the river, so not very protected from current and debris. Fortunately I am right smack in the middle of the six docks, so I'm a little more protected. We are pretty well protected by shore and island from the north, east, and south. Since the worst winds are projected to come from the north, I am hoping I'm in a decent place. My biggest fear is the whole dock floating away and/or another boat blowing into me. But ultimately the biggest risk is whatever I have not anticipated. I guess that's what insurance is for.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 06:45:56

Called my marina (on west side of Barnegat Bay, NJ) yesterday and they cant pull me until Saturday morning. I will be heading down there this afternoon to strip sails and boom and double lines. I also plan to beg and plead to get pulled tonight. If not, I will be there very early tomorrow to try to get out ahead of the storm. Unfortunately, my job has me heavily involved in our DR plan, so skipping work today was not an option.

Stay safe everyone!

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 13:57:51

Hey Ray, that's actually recommended in some cases, especially with some of the lighter boats out there. We had a McGregor blown off it's trailer earlier this year in just a regular old FL afternoon pop-up T-storm (but his boat is made to put water in it

). My favorite (heard it many years ago) is to sink the boat, let it ride the storm out on the bottom, float it, and clean it out after the storm...

Again, good luck to you guys up the coast...stay safe

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 14:20:53

Well Impulse is as ready as she is going to be. Sails off,Boom off, Bimini off, Hatches dogged, Hatch boards taped, 1/2 lines added to double/triple tie-downs, 5/8 lines led to the opposite dock to keep her floating away from my dock,More fenders added.A Marina employee walked by and said he wished everybody would do as good of a job. Is it enough? I don't know. Many other things could go wrong. Other boats, Docks giving way etc but at least I can say I did my best and wont look back wishing I had done more. Bring it on.

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Davy J
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Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 14:42:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but at least I can say I did my best and wont look back wishing I had done more. Bring it on<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Looks like you're very well prepared. The only other thing you might want to do if you still have time, is add some fenders on the port side of the boat. I've read that old tires can be pressed into service. The only thing you can do now is cross your fingers, Good Luck.

Edited by - on

Captain Bill
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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2011 : 17:50:57

Well, was just notified by Beaufort NC county emergency service that we now have a tornado watch for next 36 hours. That's in addition to Category 1+ hurricane and storm surge of at least 6 feet.

I tried to get hauled out of marina several days ago but everyone was already filled up or had run out of equipment, so I had to anchor out. Found a protected cove, put out two Danforths at 45 degrees off the bow with 50' of rope in addition to chain, in 4 ft depth at low tide. Both anchors dug in good, removed all sails, tied down bimini. scuppers clean, hoping for the best.

Hoping I don't have to use my BoatUS insurance.

Who would have thought us old timers would ever by reminded of:

"Goodnight Irene, goodnight Irene
I'll see you in my dreams..."

Good luck to everyone,

Bill

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2011 : 10:36:26

Well my marina decided not to honor their committment to pull my boat. I am less than pleased. Boat is stripped, all lines doubled and with enough slack to accomodate the surge - hopefully. It is out of my hands now.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/30/2011 : 19:02:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gpc
 ...I am assuming you are happy you added an automatic bilge pump.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The bilge pump was meant strictly for an emergency, like holing the boat. I never thought I'd need it for rain water. I have a couple of little topside leaks that result in a few ounces of water in the boat when a large storm hits. Well, 20+ hours of constant rainfall from Irene increased those few ounces to a few gallons, and the bilge pump kicked on and probably prevented a huge mess.

I'm not sure how you knew about my pump, but you may have seen my message where I posted my slightly controversial installation. I simply put the pump at the inlet end of the hose for the manual Whale (diaphragm type) pump. If I lose power and need to pump manually, the Whale pump pulls through the automatic pump as if it's a strainer. If the electric pump turns on, it simply pushes the flapper valves open on the Whale pump and pushes the water right through. As a result, I have redundant pumps without any need to cut holes for a second hose. If I hadn't figured out this shortcut, I would probably still be waiting to install the pump - I'm so glad I figured out a quick, easy way get it done last year.

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/30/2011 19:42:45

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