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Craigslist - a trailer love/hate relationship

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/02/2011 : 20:47:46

For those following my saga, I did finally pay for (and got the title for) the 1984 C25 SK. She's a nice boat, and I'm very excited to use her next season. But first, I need to get her home, and due to some comments from the owner, I decided I was probably better off not trying to sail/motor her to her new home port at this time (Thanks again Steve Milby, for volunteering to help!!!). The (now previous) owner was nice enough to give me a few days to move her from the slip outside his house, and I immediately thought "trailer!" Yeah, fat chance! Wow, it's hard to find a sailboat trailer. Or at least, it's hard to find a used one.

I found the boat on Craigslist, and have had a generally positive experience with the boat owners. Almost everyone replied to my E-mails, and the folks who said "calls only" actually answered the phone, or called back. That has NOT been my experience with the trailer owners. I am looking to find an inexpensive (less than $1000, and preferably in the $500 range) trailer for the C25, and I have already given up trying to find a sailboat trailer in that range. However, I found several tandem powerboat trailers, 6000+ lb capacity, with brakes, in my price range. I arranged to look at two today via E-mail, and had three more that were "calls only". I set out at 10 AM, and started calling all three of them, trying to add them to my circuit today. I left messages, called multiple times, and not one of them called me back. Ug! So very frustrating.

Sorry, just had to rant about the Craigslist trailer sellers. I can't believe how many of them didn't reply!

- Jim
Formerly of 1984 C25 named Dragon Wing

NOTE: In my case, PLEASE don't confuse stars/number of posts with actual knowledge. On any topic.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 07:26:58

Craigslist can be a killer. One of the reasons I love the swap line on here so much.

How much will you be using the trailer once you own it? Does your boat come with stands or a cradle? Have you priced the haul on via a commercial sailboat mover?

My experience:
- bought Iris in Detroit and paid about $1200 to move her to our place, an hour North of Toronto - four years ago.
- Paid $200 in the spring to transport to launch crane, a trip of about 8 miles.
- Paid $200 in the fall to transport back home. - Paying the hauler was marginally less expensive than paying for winter storage, but brought the convenience of working on the boat on my schedule.
- Bought a flatbed trailer for $800 on craigslist.
- Paid a towtruck $80 each way to the marina, started a small business hauling empty cradles and trailers between marinas for other folks. Kept it going until the trailer was paid for. I still get calls from folks, 2 years later. The trailer paid for itself in the first season.
- Flatbed was rotting out so this week I bought the trailer for $1000 from Dubbinchris on the swap here.
- Sold my old flatbed in the same weekend to a welder who wanted to convert it to a mobile BBQ business. He was aware of the condition of the trailer and didn't care - Selling price $850 (put money toward new trailer)

Net cost of trailering over the past 3 seasons - $80 each way to the marina (towtruck) X 6 trips + $150 outstanding in capital costs on new trailer (which I expect to recover when I sell the cradle). = $480 + $150 = $630

Cost of using a hauler for the same trip - $200 each way to the marina X 6 trips = $1200

So to me, owning the trailer represents a 50% savings - but only if you can get the trailer to pay for itself, and have someplace to store it free of charge. I have found that maintenance costs on a trailer that never touches water are minimal. If the trailer wasn't able to recoup its own costs in year one, the capital costs would not level out until something around year 5 or 6. If you have to pay to store the trailer, its an even longer term.

I doubt you will find a decent trailer under $1,000.

Edited by - Prospector on 10/03/2011 12:30:29

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 07:35:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Craigslist can be a killer. One of the reasons I love the swap line on here so much.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In general I'll agree...but "killer58" wanted to sell a trailer and never came back. Pretty frustrating when you take a little time to contact some co-buyers and talk to a truck owner....then nothing.....

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 08:31:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 . . . The (now previous) owner was nice enough to give me a few days to move her from the slip outside his house, and I immediately thought "trailer!" Yeah, fat chance! Wow, it's hard to find a sailboat trailer. Or at least, it's hard to find a used one.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ahhhhhh, memories

Imagine how hard this would be without the internet!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 08:43:23

Prospector, I think my wife would kill me if I started another "business"! :) The boat is in the water, so no stands, etc. I priced other moves, and they were $800-$1000. I'd rather put that money toward a trailer. Would I actually haul the boat often? Probably not. But I'd REALLY like the convenience of, as March rolled in and the weather started to break, bringing her home and working on her a few nights/weekends before she went into the water. I don't think my neighbors would mind, as long as she wasn't a permanent fixture, and I'd MUCH rather work close to home with all my tools, easy access to electricity, food, bathrooms, stores, etc. When you factor in the price reduction that my "new" home marina will give if she's stored and retrieved on a trailer, a used trailer in the $1000 range will pay for itself in a few years. If you also add in the cost of having her moved, the trailer pays for itself even faster. Of course, convincing my bank account that it's a good investment is another story!

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 09:14:04

Jim,
The chances of finding a sailboat trailer capable of safely hauling a 5,000+ lb. sailboat for around $1,000 are pretty slim. Most sailboat trailers you will find in that range are made for lighter swing keel sailboats such as the C22 and MacGregors. I would think for $1,000 you could get the boat hauled and avoid the cost and maintenance required to own a trailer. Or just leave the boat up north for the winter, sail it a few times to raise your experience level and judge the engine performance, and sail it down in the spring. Otherwise you will be dealing with trailer maintenance (and costs) when you could be out sailing.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 10/03/2011 09:14:49

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 10:14:52

It sounds to me like you're pretty much resigned to leaving her in Toms River this winter, and the trailer is for future maneuvers... One consideration in support of that is that like the outboard, the used trailer might not be completely up to the task when you buy it. Brakes, bearings, lights,... all will need checking and possibly some work.

I'll also revive an old debate that's generated numerous (sometimes animated) threads here that you can "Search" for: Tow Vehicle. (Oh-oh...

) The total weight of your boat, motor, paraphernalia, and trailer are likely to be up around the 7000 lb. area--there are some actual figures in some historical posts. (Don't look at C-250 data.) Now, do I recall correctly you mentioning a Mountaineer (a.k.a. Explorer)? I don't know its rated capacity, but I wouldn't feel good about your using that for a trip over a half mile at speeds over 25 mph. Just not enough mass or wheelbase--when something happens, people can get hurt. For your delivery trip, you might be able to rent a truck as a tow vehicle... I don't know how rental companies look at that.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/03/2011 10:15:35

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 10:33:00

Dave,
Actually, we're not even at the Mountaineer's towing capacity; we (currently) have a Honda Pilot, which is only good to about 3500 lbs. So, I'd probably be renting a pickup truck from UHaul or another such source. While that does increase our cost, it allows us to still keep the Pilot (my wife's favorite vehicle so far, though I'm not sure why) and move the boat. You mentioned 7000 lbs; that's been the ballpark I've been going with, too. I figure if the boat is listed at 4300 lbs displacement weight, and I add on all my "stuff" (I have kids whose stuff will be on there, too!), I'm probably at at least 5000 lbs, and probably more like 5300-5500 lbs. Add on another 1200 for the trailer, and we're now rapidly approaching 7000 lbs, so 7000 was my low end. FWIW, I actually think the Mountaineer is rated at 7000 lbs (if I recall correctly), while the Explorer is not, which I find a little odd.

I also had the same thought about the trailer. Unless I get REALLY lucky, whatever I find will need to be modified, and it will be much easier to modify it if I have time, which is also contributing to deciding to keep her in Toms River.

Of course, looking at the weather forecast for this weekend, it is VERY tempting to try to make a run for Ocean City. If only the engine weren't quite so "questionable".

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 12:27:46

Jim - I have no idea how far you are going, but if you do find the perfect trailer, call a few tow-truck companies and get quotes from them to compare to the cost of renting a truck.

There are some distinct advantages to the tow truck for a short haul, not the least of which is that if the boat should happen to come top some calamity while being towed, it is the tow truck driver who assumes the liability for the low branch that whacks the side of the boat, or the bump that sends the table crashing down off the wall, or what have you. That aside, a tow driver is accustomed to the vagaries of hauling weird crap; and should be better equipped to deal with gusty winds and hobby-horsing if your mis-suited trailer starts acting up.

In our case, renting a truck for a day plus fuel would have come in more expensive than hiring a towtruck and not sweating it.

We tried towing the boat behind an Astrovan once. I think the steering wheel still has my hands imprinted into it. Never again.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 13:55:36

Thanks, that's a really great idea! I'm not going THAT far (only about an hour, at highway speeds), and the tow truck will be heavy and strong enough to handle the load.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 13:58:33

Jim,
What's questionable about the outboard? Can't you run it over to a shop and have them tune it up before next weekend?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 14:35:45

Joe,
Realistically, no (I thought about that). It's still on the boat, and the boat is an hour and a half away and in someone else's back yard (essentially; it's on a dock in their yard). I have a feeling getting it off the motor mount while it's in the water would be tough enough even WITH the boat in a more accessible location.
Another factor in all of this is that the marina where I think I want to summer the boat told me last week that they are out of jack stands and I'd have to supply my own if I'm going to winter there. That's another $600+ out of pocket. Again, not a HUGE investment, but not one we're really willing to make at this point, especially when that money could go toward a trailer.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 17:18:19

Let me make this simple!

I bought a sailboat trailer 3 years ago thinking I would pull the boat and store it on the hard every fall. The trailer had maybe 200 miles on it even though it was several years old. I paid $1,500 for it. I've spent around $500 making changes so my C25 will fit on it.

Since I bought the trailer the boat has been on the trailer exactly 1 time for about 45 minutes while I adjusted the bunks.

In the same time frame I've paid $1,620 ($45/mth) in storage fees + approx $300 in registration fees. So I have approx $4,000 invested in a trailer that I've never used! How stupid is that!

Anybody want to buy a trailer that's setup for a wing keel C25. Asking price $4,000. Oh yeah, it needs new brakes too!

Save your money and buy a new motor if you don't trust the one on the boat.

Edited by - GaryB on 10/03/2011 17:18:59

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 17:35:25

Jim, we regularly pull our engine at the dock. Assuming you are spry and of good health, it really isn't THAT big of a deal. I don't know theweight difference between our Evinrude and your honda, but our process is like this:

1. Back boat into slip so engine is in corner between finger dock and main dock.
2. put a rope around the carrying handle and up to teh boom. We call this the "Holy Hell line" and hope we never need it.
3. Put the engine in the fully up position in the mount.
4. tilt the engine into the up position, and see how close it is to being level with teh finger dock. Rarely it will be really close, then we just get someone big to go on the boaw and swing the boat around so teh business end is already on the dock while we slide the powerhead over. This rarely happens.
5. Since the finger dock is always lower, I grab the engine and lift it off the boat and onto the dock.
6. Swear all the way to the car while carrying the engine.

I find it much easier to remove the engine at the dock than up in the air. If the boat is up on the stands I have to work a ladder into the mix. Try descending a ladder with an OB. Its not fun.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 17:39:59

Gary, thanks, I will have to remember that technique. The current dock is seen in my photos of the boat, but imagine a canal and the boat tied up parallel with the canal, along the "shore". The engine is on the far side of the boat. Since it isn't my dock (or a rental) removal of the engine is gonna be tough!

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:05:26

How wide is the canal and how heavily travelled? Can you tie up stern-to with an anchor off the bow? (look up med mooring, or mediterranean mooring).

Edited by - Prospector on 10/03/2011 18:06:03

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:08:01

Hmmm, there's a boat almost directly across, and one directly behind. Not sure it would work, and more importantly, the owner wants me gone, not doing boat work on his property.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:18:57

Prospector, thanks for the graphic, by the way. That's pretty cool!

Here's the satellite view of the guy's dock:

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:31:51

I'd swing it out 45° so the engine is close to the dock and give it a go. Just be sure of your centre of gravity when you try to lift, or you'll go forward into the drink. I'm not prejudiced, but your engine is; are you physically in good shape, and youngish? If you aren't up to it, then by all means wait, but this won't fix itself and talk is worth nuthin. In other words, whatever you are doing, "Git'er Done."

The med moor is only needed for as long as it takes to remove the engine (30 minutes,tops) then you tie the boat back up normally.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 19:58:09

You don't have to be youngish, just in good shape with reasonably good upper body strength. I'm 61 and can remove our Nissan 9.8, weighing 93 lbs., from the boat to the dock. If you don't have a nylon web strap harness made for lifting outboard motors, take about 15 ft. of 3/8" line and create your own as I did. Granted, my o/b powerhead is fairly level with the dock, so I only had to lift it a few inches to clear the motor mount and pull it over to the dock and slide the shaft up onto the dock.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:02:41

I'm 41 and in, at best, only "decent" shape. I have 2 kids who I chase around, pick up and throw around (figuratively), etc., but they are my only real form of exercise. Together, they don't weigh 93 lbs!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:44:58

After my boat (fin keel) was put on stands in a marina, I had a yard guy lift me to the motor with a forklift. I loosened the clamps, slid the motor off, and then the guy lowered it and me to the ground. I slipped him a piece of green paper and everyone was happy.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
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Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:50:53

Green paper are 20's around here. My method is cheaper ;o)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/04/2011 : 06:54:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...My method is cheaper ;o)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I tried it with two ladders and another guy once--that almost became extremely expensive--I mean hospital-bill-expensive! From then on, a tip to a yard guy was cheap!

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/04/2011 : 10:22:55

I remove my outboard (which will be this coming Monday

) while on the hard by simply backing my truck up underneath the outboard, then while standing on the lowered tailgate, I lift it off and place it in the bed.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 10/04/2011 : 10:27:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 If only the engine weren't quite so "questionable".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What's up with it?

Edited by - dlucier on 10/04/2011 10:28:34

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