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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Head Sail "UV" Protection

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/13/2011 : 14:09:45

My season, regrettably, has ended early do to business travel commitments so as it has been a couple of years since my sails were properly washed/inspected by a loft, and hoping to take advantage of the lull between summer and winter I dropped them off at the local sail loft I have used over literally decades for such "maintenance" matters. Within a couple days I received a call informing me that my head sail's UV cover had deteriorated so badly that it needed to be replaced, etc, etc, etc. While I know that I live in an expensive “gold coast” part of the country I nearly keeled over when told the quoted price for replacement. This sail is a good quality Ullman sail (as there are no local Ullman lofts I am using a different loft, as noted, I have had good experience with) that are only five years old and have had light use, in the Northeast where the season – for me at least – is only six months long. I had expected that the UV protective material would last far longer.

My question is how long should the UV protection last and how much (roughly) should its replacement cost on a furling headsail? When I return to the states I will call Gary at Ullman/Venture to get his input, but the experience from this sage group would be appreciated!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 14:27:35

Peter, My headsail has the same problem. The sail is good but the UV cover is falling apart. Like you I took it to the sail loft and was told that to replace the cover was expensive and in their opinion not worth it. I bought a sock for it and in the future I won't buy a sail with a UV cover and will use the jib sock for protection. The side benefit is that the sail is much lighter without the cover. The sail loft told me that the dacron cover only lasts 5 to 7 years.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 15:51:56

Peter,
There are two different UV covers for furlers. One is made from Sunbrella (colored) and the the other from Dacron sail cloth (white). Sunbrella is usually more expensive. The dacron cover is usually termed sacrificial but, in my opinion, they both are sacrificial as both are put in place to fail. I have no idea if one lasts longer than the other. My dacron cover has been in the sun for going on 5 years now and still looks great. I have heard that the Sunbella covers will shrink (or expand) at a different rate than the dacron sail and this can result in a gathered look to the cover. Dacron covers and sails should shrink (or expand) at a similar rate. Sail-Rite replaces the covers as part of their usual business and can give you a fair comparison. The only repair I ever had done to a sail was by a North Sails Loft (San Diego) and they were surprisingly well priced.

[url="http://www.sailrite.com/"]SailRite[/url]

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 16:28:47

My old sail that I used for about eight years was probably 3-4, or more, years old when I got it and the dacron cover was still good when I replaced the sail a few years ago.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 18:05:12

FWIW, when we ordered new sails from Ullman Ventura last year we emphasized that sail shape was a priority. When we asked if Sunbrella was a good choice for UV protection - Gary said yes without hesitation. Granted these are cruising sails - not racing sails.

I am so happy with their product and level of customer service - I won't think twice about shipping anything back for service or even just cleaning.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 18:06:46

Hi Peter... I'm guessing you're using Hathaway. I got a (probably) similar diagnosis and estimate from them for the Dacron strip on my 130. Indeed it had some signs of deterioration, but I think they wanted $525 to replace it about 10 years ago, when the sail was probably 5-6 years old. I decided it wasn't bad enough at the time, and to wait until I felt I needed a new sail (which never happened). I don't know what's happened since then--it's up to "Voyager" Bruce Ross, but I think he's still using the sail on Passage.

The book on Sunbrella is that it is more UV-resistant than UV-treated Dacron, but it doesn't stretch as much, and therefore can cause the foot and leach of the sail to "cup" somewhat, spoiling the airflow. That said, cruising sailors the world over have Sunbrella sun strips on jillions of furling sails. (Racers generally go naked.

)

I wonder if it'd help to put an alcohol-based SPF 50+ sunblock on the strip at least each year... It works nicely for bungees. But I'd talk to Gary about the whole issue.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/13/2011 18:09:07

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 18:17:31

$525?!?!

That's more than half of what we paid for our 135 in late 2010! We only paid $200 for a custom made sail cover - also made from Sunbrella.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 19:43:06

Exactly. I think part of it is that they can't buy Sunbrella in 6" wide strips--more like 5'. Then there's the labor... They didn't argue against it not being cost-effective.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/13/2011 19:47:56

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 19:58:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ...I wonder if it'd help to put an alcohol-based SPF 50+ sunblock on the strip at least each year...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There's a spray-on product out there made specifically for providing UV protection. Not sure it's better than your homemade stuff, but here's the link FWIW:

http://www.303products.com/

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 20:06:26

I think I paid around $700.00 for my new North Sails RF 135. There's no way I'd pay $525.00 for a new sail cover when I can get a brand spanking new sail for just $175.00 more. Like Dave, I'd just use the sail until it was no longer serviceable then buy a new one.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 20:10:14

Thanks all for the input. Dave, yes it was Hathaways and in my novice opinion the sail looked fine. FYI inflation had the quote at, brace yourself -- $750.00 (I paid slightly less than that for the sail when new). When I bought the sail it was finished with "dacron" UV protection, which did not phase me as I have heard mixed reviews regarding Sunbrella for sail UV protection do to shrinkage, etc. That said, I am not an America's Cup candidate nor do I currently race at all so Sunbrella might be the way to go in the future. I plan on calling Gary and fully expect to hear something like "use it next year and then send it back to me for inspection . . ." And OJ, my biggest concern sending the sail coast to coast for service is knowing that UPS and FedEx could easily reverse (or lose) any good the best sailmaker achieves!

Based on the replys, it sounds like 5-7 years is the norm, maybe longer, and lower cost options are available.

And finally, for you hank-on sail folk, their are some advantages to not having a furler -- in my past boats (without furler) I started to consider new sails after ten years!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 06:24:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 ...their (sic) are some advantages to not having a furler...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nah!

Not for you and me...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/14/2011 06:25:34

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 07:09:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 And finally, for you hank-on sail folk, their are some advantages to not having a furler...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wait, I got this one...give me a minute...Ummm?...Alright, I give...What is it?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 09:53:06

I inherited an unused, CD-brand, furling-sail cover made of blue sunbrella when I bought my boat with its hank-on sails. It's the heavy kind of sunbrella used in mainsail covers. It would be easy to make one if you had a good source for a 30 foot long, heavy-duty, nylon zipper. The furler cover was essentially a long, rectangular bag with open ends, about 30' x 15", and with stainless eyes built into the top and bottom for a halyard and a down haul. I've never seen one used on any boat around here, surprisingly.

[Aside: I never needed the beautiful furler cover, so when I made a bimini for my new 1978 boat 6 years ago, I cut the furler cover in half, sewed the 15 foot long pieces together, and I have used it as a bimini cover since then. It's 15'x30". It's in perfect shape after all that time on the boat all year long, through sun, rain, and snow. And my home-made bimini is similarly in perfect shape because of having a great cover!]

I have no experience with the normal UV protection strips that everyone seems to have on their furling headsails, but if I did have a furler, I'd choose a furler cover and no UV protection strip on the jib.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 10:16:25

I have a concern about jib socks... I've seen them flapping on windy days, and wonder whether the coarse Sunbrella is chafing the edges of the rolled-up jib.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 14:58:52

I replaced the sunbrella on my 150 after 10 years of use, probably should have been replaced before that. The sail was in good shape, cost around $400 for the sunbrella cover.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 17:06:13

I loved my sock.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 19:16:39

Dave, Mine isn't made out of Sunbrella. It's made from a material called WeatherMax. Its not coarse at all. I would say it has the same feel and texture as say a 10 oz Dacron would be. I got it here http://www.leesailcovers.com/Home.php I believe one of our favorite Texans has one .

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5370 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 20:12:42

Referring back to Stinkpotter's (Dave Bristle) comment on the head sail, I've maintained it every year washing it at the end of the season with soap, water and a little chlorine bleach, then using a can of scotch-guard, sprayed the outer sacrificial strip.
No problem with it so far (it has been six years since Dave sold Passage). Last Fall I brought the main and jib to North Sails in Milford CT (we're just a little beyond the Gold Coast thank God) and for about $250, got them both washed, pressed and repaired (some stitches and threads were failing) and this year the sails are still very serviceable.
When the season ends in a few weeks I'll wash them down, rinse and dry them thoroughly and put them away for another season.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2011 : 09:05:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...(it has been six years since Dave sold Passage)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, five. (August '06 I believe.) Amazing--it seems like yesterday. It's good to hear that sail has held up, despite what HR&R in Stamford said. Other than that, they've been good to work with.

EDIT: I just looked up my old Swap Meet listing for Passage (which Bill V. simply copied when he "flipped" her the following year). Brought back some memories... She was a "good ole boat!"

[/hijack]

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/15/2011 09:27:48

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