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New owner needs wintering checklist

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glw
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/13/2011 : 06:42:02

Last month we (my wife and I) purchased a Catalina 25 TM WK with a furling Genoa.
The couple we brought it from took us on a sail and gave us a good lesson on the basics of sailing it. They also explained all the features/equipment of the boat.

We learned enough that we have been able to successfully sail it every weekend since. However, I have learned a couple of lessons the hard way. Such as you don't want your lines tight that secure the boat to the slip. A stormy day apparently created some waves which broke one of my securing lines I had tightened to make sure the boat didn't bump against anything. Now the front of the boat is showing fiberglass where it rubbed against the slip. I'm also learning to come into the slip VERY slowly.
I soon will need to take the mast down to trailer the boat home for the winter. I have found what I think are the steps to do this on these forums. But I have some anxiety about trying it.

What I am looking for is:
What else I should do for the boat as I prepare it for the winter?
How do I fix the front of the boat where it rubbed down to the fiberglass?
Do I leave the batteries in the boat?
Where should I look for a new furling Genoa? Are used sails OK? How do I know if a used sail is any good?

These are the steps I found on how to lower my mast:
0) Point the boat into the wind.
1) If the rig is tuned, mark the turnbuckle threads with some rigging tape, magic marker etc. This Makes resetting easy.
2) Slack the entire rig by backing off all the turnbuckles a bit. Fully slack the adjustable backstay if you have one.
3) Loosen the turnbuckles and remove the pins on the upper stays.
4) Remove the turnbuckles and remove the pins on the forward lower stays.
5) Attach a spare length of decent quality line to the jib halyard shackle.
6) Secure the bitter end of the jib halyard to a cleat on the mast. (What is a bitter end?)
7) Lead the line attached to the jib halyard around a leg of the pulpit and back to a winch.
8) Slide the hatch closed.
9) Take three wraps on the winch and tighten the line until it is taking tension off the forestay.
10) Hold tension on this line and unscrew the turnbuckle and/or remove the pin in the forestay.
11) With one person guiding the mast down, (mostly controlling side sway) the second uses the winch to brake the mast lowering
12) Gently land the mast in the crutch you've arranged for the aft end. Make sure it's not 'binding' on the cabin top.

As we went on the sail with the elderly couple who sold us the boat, the waves seemed to sparkle all around us. It was exhilarating, then I noticed a tear forming in the elderly gentleman’s eye as he realized this could be his final sail. I hope when my sailing days are over that I and my family will remember them as fondly. I hope for more than 20, so I guess I better learn to take care of this boat.

Thanks in advance for the tips and advice.

Edited by - on

glw
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 07:12:42

I found what a 'bitter end' is on wikipedia:
More a ropeworker's term than a knot term, it refers to the end of a rope that is tied off, hence the expression "hanging on to the bitter end".

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 07:21:45

Grant, congratulations on your new boat. I'm sure you'll have many years with her to build memories. It was nice of the PO to give you some lessons. If you are in the same area as he is, maybe you could offer a weekend or two on board next year?

There are videos describing the mast lowering process and I'll let those with more experience doing it provide advice. But, I did notice that you never mention and A-Frame or gin pole so, I think you're missing a few steps. Using one person to control sideways motion is asking for trouble. That stick gets very heavy as it comes down. BTW, the 'bitter end' is just the end of the rope.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 07:24:41

Grant,
That's a great post. As a fellow novice, I'm looking forward to reading the answers! I may be lowing my mast (on land) this weekend - good luck with your effort!

I'm planning on taking the engine and battery home (but my boat will be stored at a yard far from home). As I understand it, you want to take the engine off before you head out - that 100'ish Lbs bouncing around on the transom as you go over every pothole isn't really that good for the boat. Plus, taking it off will reduce your overall length, thus making it a little easier to safely maneuver. You're better off taking the battery home and hooking it up to a charger. That should help preserve it's life.

As for patching the gel coat, there are a lot of good tips for that on here. For example, check out:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21866
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23499
and Tomas Kruska's site here:
http://www.kruska.cz/C25_High_Anxiety/Anchor_locker_repair/

Here's a good thread on winter covers:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24056

You'll also want to consider winterizing the engine, and flushing the fresh water system with non-toxic antifreeze:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=16819

Hope this helps!
Although he was repairing the anchor locker, the info is very helpful.

Edited by - JimGo on 10/13/2011 07:26:11

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 07:26:11

Comments to : ...steps I found on how to lower my mast
Point the boat into the wind. Bow or stern-to or not at all if no wind.

If the rig is tuned, mark the turnbuckle threads with some rigging tape, magic marker etc. An Optional step 

Slack the entire rig by backing off all the turnbuckles a bit. Fully slack the adjustable backstay if you have one.
Loosen the turnbuckles and remove the pins on the upper stays. Leave these attached for raising and lowering the mast. they should be tha last to be reoved once the mast is down.

Remove the turnbuckles and remove the pins on the forward lower stays. Both forward and rear lower shrouds should be removed. The foward chain plates should be used to attached an A-frame if one is to be used.

Attach a spare length of decent quality line to the jib halyard shackle. Should be long enough to reach half way up the mast, forward to the stem fitting, back to a primary winch, then forward to the mast tabernackle. 

Secure the bitter end of the jib halyard to a cleat on the mast. (What is a bitter end?)The bitter end is the end of the line not used with a shackle to attach to the head of a sail or an anchor. It is also sometimes called the "live end" since you tie it off on a cleat or other acnchor point. It can also be attached to a cleat on the cabin top, which I would trust more than one on the mast.

Lead the line attached to the jib halyard around a leg of the pulpit and back to a winch. This line should run through a turning block on the stem fitting - the fitting on the bow on which your furler is attached, then to a winch.If using an A-frame this line and the halyard should be attached to the frame

Slide the hatch closed. A standard safety procedure whenever working on the cabin top.

Take three wraps on the winch and tighten the line until it is taking tension off the forestay.

Hold tension on this line and unscrew the turnbuckle and/or remove the pin in the forestay. Remove the pin

With one person guiding the mast down, (mostly controlling side sway) the second uses the winch to brake the mast lowering. You will probably only need one turn on the winch to brake the mast. you will have to physically force to start lowering. Keep out from under the mast. Guiding and lowering can be successfully accomplished by one person.

Gently land the mast in the crutch you've arranged for the aft end. Make sure it's not 'binding' on the cabin top. Again, an a-frame makes this task easier for lowring and raising, as does a crutch that can be extended six or eight feet above the deck. Catalina Direct sells a real nice one.

Check utube. There are some very good videos showing this process

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/13/2011 07:31:45

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 07:44:55

Here are a few of the videos.
These are by Dave, a fellow member here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ

Here's an alternative technique on a C22:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8

And here's another version on a C27:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpFhnYQmRYs

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 08:16:51

When just using a halyard led to a winch to lower the mast, keep in mind that at a certain point sometime before the jib halyard approaches being parallel to the mast, the halyard will no longer hold up the mast and it will come down rather swiftly as in free fall. Don't ask me how I know this.

Edited by - dlucier on 10/13/2011 08:52:01

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 08:48:46

All good stuff for mast lowering, but for winterizing there are a few more steps. I'll try to walk through how we do it here, but these may vary due to climate, personal preference, etc.

1. Remove boat from water - varies by marina/owner, could be travel-lift, could be crane, could be a trailer at a ramp.
2. Transport boat to winter storage location - for us this is in the backyard, but you may store at a marina or whatever.
3. Once parked, level trailer, then raise front of boat/trailer slightly to drain aft.
4. Wash down boat with powerwasher, both the hull and deck. Keep powerwasher away from teak. When washing the decks watch where the water drains to, and be sure it is leaving the boat. You don't want a pond to form in the cockpit, along the side-decks, or really anyplace at all. If possible, station someone inside the boat to watch for and mark leaks while you powerwash.
5. Perfom any outstanding maintenance items that will be impossible with the tarp on the boat. This could include rebedding stanctions, removing teak for refinishing, etc. Be sure to temporarily plug any holes if you are removing a part for more than one day.
6. Let the boat sit for about a week. Observe every few days to be sure drainage is still right and that nothing has settled wrong. Complete exterior chores that you put off all summer.
7. Rig frame to support tarp.
8. pour wintrizing antifreeze down all drains and pump through head into waste tank. Pour a cup of winterizing antifreeze into head and leave it. Use a funnel to pour winterizing antifreeze into ice-box drain. Drain freshwater tank, and pour a cup of vodka in to prevent freezing.
9. Check cockpit drains and scuppers to be sure no leaves have fallen into them that will plug them. Tarp boat. When tarping, be sure to leave a way to get into the boat in te winter. I go up about once a month to knock off snow/ice, or putter. Its a nice man cave.
10. Hook up power to boat to run battery charger through the winter. We use a heavy gauge extension cord and an adaptor to allow us to plug in to the house. we also keep a space heater on the boat through the winter so I can warm it up to hang out in there and putter.

We store our lifejackets, cushions, lines, sails, and everything fabric in the house for the winter. the boat is left very empty for winter storage, but tends to collect tools the closer we get to spring. In the spring I purge the boat again and jettison the tools to put all the sailing equipment back in place. Be sure to remove the batteries from anything that has them before storing. This includes handheld GPS, Radios, timers, etc.

EDIT TO ADD - We also pull the OB off the boat in the fall and store it in teh basement for the winter. Outboard winterization for us is pretty low key. Since the engine is stored indoors i don't need to fog it or anything. Just put it on the stand and leave it be. Our process:
1. Dump as much gas as possible from the tank into the lawnmower. Put gas tank on shelf in garage.
2. Put OB on rack in basement.
3. Every second year change lower unit oil.

Edited by - Prospector on 10/13/2011 20:00:32

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 08:53:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 When just using a halyard led to a winch to lower the mast, keep in mind that at a certain point sometime before the jib halyard approaches being parallel to the mast, the halyard will no longer hold up the mast and it will come down rather swiftly as in free fall. Don't ask me how I know this.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure if I follow you, but that may be because of our technique. Wecleat a halyard to te bottom of the mast, then lead its working end forward to a block on the stem fitting, then back through the deck organizer to a clutch, and then to the cabin-top winch. Mechanical advantage seems adequate all the way through the descent. The winch just takes up the extra strain.

As long as the halyard is cleated, no adventures seem to befall us that we can't handle. Tyimng off to moving parts is a bad idea though. We tried that once.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 16:03:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 When just using a halyard led to a winch to lower the mast, keep in mind that at a certain point sometime before the jib halyard approaches being parallel to the mast, the halyard will no longer hold up the mast and it will come down rather swiftly as in free fall. Don't ask me how I know this.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do follow you. When the jib halyard approaches parallel to the mast, its force vector loses all of its vertical component. This is easily solved by a gin pole (if you have straps or stays to control sideways sway) or an A-frame (which provides both vertical vector and sideways control). THIS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AND, IF DONE IMPROPERLY, CAN RESULT IN SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH. Be sure you understand the physics, or have someone who's done it before helping you.

Here's my setup, though the connection points are slightly different for the C25 than for my C250. (Sorry, this is a combination of lowering and raising pictures.) Note that I have TWO LINES holding the mast up. I wanted redundancy for this, so I used the jib halyard (as recommended by Catalina for early C250 models) and a harness arrangement below the spreaders (as recommended by Catalina for more recent models):

<center>

</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/13/2011 16:05:51

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 18:55:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...Drain freshwater tank, and pour a cup of vodka in to prevent freezing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's a common joke among sailors... not real (I hope

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/13/2011 18:57:07

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 19:54:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...Drain freshwater tank, and pour a cup of vodka in to prevent freezing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's a common joke among sailors... not real (I hope

). 100 proof is 50% water, and the alcohol evaporates fairly quickly in a mostly empty tank and isn't very good at preventing freezing. Non-toxic (RV) antifreeze is intended for potable water systems--I put about a gallon into my empty water tank (where there's certain to be a little water left) and run it through the lines to the sink and head till I see pink. In the spring, I pump it out, run a few gallons of water into the tank, pump again, repeat until there's no visible pink color, and I'm good to go.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Proves my gullibility then. we don't use the freshwater system, and our tank is bone dry. I thought folks were serious when they said to put strong alcohol in there rather than the RV stuff. Thanks for the clarifier!!

(Our alcohol usually doesn't hang around long enough to evaporate)

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 20:11:44

I've wondered about that kind of non-toxic RV anti-freeze, like the one I did my camper with last year. Contains ethanol with a bitterant. All ingredients have to be food grade, so why haven't the kids caught on yet, ie., where's network news to spread a trend like wild fire. I splashed some on my tongue, as I need to know what else to look for in the spring after I clear the pink, so, to quote Ralph Wiggum, "tastes like burning." Flushed fine in the spring, but I think I'll use the non-bittered propylene glycol pink stuff this year. Less fire concerns in an enclosed vessel and I'll never have to purposely taste denatonium benzoate (Special Denatatured alcohol-40) again.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 00:38:38

Regarding anti-freeze, get that from westmarine or propylene glycol coolant used for solar systems, its all based on the same non-toxic propylene glycol. Ethylene glycol is poisonous.

I've build this mast rising/lowering system http://www.catalina27.org/wingtip/mastsys/mastsys.html.
It's ultra easy and you don't need to carry special A-frame pipes or something else, just spinnaker pole and main sheet blocks and some wires.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 06:33:24

Right--the pink glycol stuff at WM (and many other places). I've never heard of the ethanol type--sounds like a really bad idea for several reasons.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5369 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2011 : 21:30:48

Battery and batteries
I keep my 12V battery in the boat all winter with a solar panel and regulator so when I go visit my man-cave, I can run the lights and the sound system/radio. I try to make sure that I keep the battery up above 12.4 volts (and preferably at 12.6V) throughout the winter.

Many people will take their battery home and put it in their basement until spring. Two things can go wrong there:
(1) they don't keep a trickle charge on the battery - in 65-70 degree temps, the battery will self-discharge rather quickly over the course of 5-6 months. It's actually better in the cold, as it discharges more slowly.
So you must check the voltage every 2-3 weeks over the winter and make sure it's topped off to around 12.6-12.7 volts. If the battery reads 12.2 volts or less for any appreciable amount of time, sulfation can set in, which diminishes battery life.
(2) some folks will overcharge the battery using a cheap trickle charger. All battery chargers must include a three-stage regulator such that if the battery is low, stage 1 will power it back up to almost full charge. If a few 10th of volts low, stage 2 will drive the battery up to nearly full charge.
If the battery is hovering around full charge, stage 3 will provide a slight "float" charge to the battery to maintain equilibrium. Overcharged batteries will suffer from electrolyte loss, and drying out the top of the plates and resulting damage to the plates. Once the electrolyte is boiled off by overcharging, you can replace it with distilled water, but the damage is largely done.

Lastly, if you use alkaline, carbon, lithium button cells or other disposable batteries for lights, wind gauges, nav instruments, GPS, radios, flashlights or safety equipment, remove them from the article and from the boat. These batteries leak some really bad stuff that will damage your electronics and electrical connections and can destroy expensive equipment.

I have a solar LED light on Passage that remains aboard both summer and winter. So far, so good. It uses a 3V rechargeable lithium cell. If I need battery powered equipment, I carry it to and from the boat on visits. I've converted entirely to NiMH rechargeable AA and AAA cells for mostly all my equipment. These seem to hold up pretty well in cold conditions and will hold a charge for several months.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2011 : 04:39:43

Good points bruce. It took us a few batteries to finally get to where we realized that tough love (out on the boat) was best for the batteries in the off season. We also keep a shore power charger running in the off season.

Edited by - Prospector on 10/15/2011 18:52:12

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2011 : 07:29:23

Where do you live? Will the boat have power over the winter? My batteries have always stayed aboard but with a live charger attached. Where will she be stored? Most new owners would love to have her at home for at least the first winter. Mine have always been in my back yard and it is great.

Please provide data on your boat, we Catalina 25 nerds actually care what sail number and year, etc she is. If you can post photos to a hosting service then you can link to them on this forum, that is where all photos here originate; a hosting service. We would love to tell you things about your boat based on what we would see.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/15/2011 14:38:07

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2011 : 18:54:18

Hey Frank, GLW shows his homeas Payton Utah in his profile. I guess its a dry cold with snow there, but not too many freeze-thaw cycles. Just a guess, I've only been to Utah in the summer and it was hard to find beer.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2011 : 19:27:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Right--the pink glycol stuff at WM (and many other places). I've never heard of the ethanol type--sounds like a really bad idea for several reasons.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've never seen antifreeze where ethanol is the main active ingredient. Last year I used WestMMarine purple antifreeze - I wanted a little extra "kick" vs. their pink stuff. This year I was at WalMart for something else and picked up their red RV antifreeze, figuring it would save me a trip to WestMarine. But after seeing this thread I checked the contents and it has a significant amount of ethanol in addition to the propylene glycol. The WestMarine stuff is touted as ethanol-free. So I think I'm going to return the WalMart antifreeze, because I don't think ethanol fumes are a good idea if I run any electric tools in my cabin during the winter.

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/15/2011 19:29:46

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