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'Need help with a Mercury O/B ...

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/23/2002 : 18:35:47

Hi everyone,

I've got an older model Mercury 7.5 hp outboard (1977). I am having a devil of a time trying to get it to pivot back and forth. Most of the time that's not a problem ... BUT, when the crosswinds are up, getting out of the slip is a pain when I can't get the outboard turned to one side or the other to help turn the boat ... and it's REALLY bad when the engine is stuck turning the boat the WRONG way!

When I try to pivot the engine to one side or the other, it feels like I am working against a friction lock or something ... it is HARD to turn, to say the least. I don't have a shop manual yet, and I know little about outboards ... is there some sort of lock that is designed to lock the engine in place? How do I unlock it?

I've got to figure out a way to make this engine turn better, or I'm going to provide comic relief for all to see every time I leave the slip ... thanks for the help!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2002 : 22:31:16

I had a Merc 4 that was about the same vintage, but sold it many years ago. There's a steering damper on there somewhere, but I don't remember where. I definitely used it to hold the motor in position while steering with the rudder on my Daysailer, but could easily turn the motor when needed. Look for little cranks, levers, and such around the pivot area. Sorry--my memory is a little....... uhhhhh... What was the question? <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 09:17:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I had a Merc 4 that was about the same vintage, but sold it many years ago. There's a steering damper on there somewhere, but I don't remember where.
Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Dave,

I was hoping one of you old farts ... errrrrr I mean old salts would respond!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I'll look back there again, but I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pull the outboard off the mount to find it. I almost did a swan dive into the water when I tried to look back there last time. On top of that, the ducks all come swimming up to beg a snack when I'm leaning over the transom ... I get worried that they will start nibbling at my appendages.

Merry Christmas!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 09:42:11

Buzz,
Can't speak for Mercs but on the OMC's there is a spring loaded 7/16" bolt protruding from the casting that houses the turning elements of the motor that controls ease of turn. The tiller has a similar bolt controlling the tension there but it's recessed. For all the hoopla dealing with motor differences, motor similarities are more commonplace. You might be lucky.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 09:42:48

Buzz,

It's been my experience that most engine controls are generally within reach of the boat operator. On my mid 90's Mercury, the friction lever is located just above the motor mount clamps on the front of the motor. Also, your motor may need a shot of grease, look for a zerk fitting around the pivot point.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 11:59:16

Hi Val & Don,

Thanks for the pointers ... I'll take a closer look and see if I can find any bolts/grease fittings that look like they might do the trick. BTW, I do remember that there is a little lever on the front of the engine below the choke and at the top of the drive shaft that is marked "Troll" ... what is that for? I moved it up and down and it didn't seem to do anything.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

djones
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 12:51:05

The Troll position lets the motor tilt up just a bit, so the foot is still in the water but at an angle. It's so you can go real slow through shallow areas without major adjustments.

Once you flip it to troll, just tilt the motor just a bit. You should here a click, and then let the motor back down. Flip the lever again, raise motor slightly, and then it should lower all the way back down.

-Don Jones

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 12:53:21

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The Troll position lets the motor tilt up just a bit, so the foot is still in the water but at an angle. It's so you can go real slow through shallow areas without major adjustments.

Once you flip it to troll, just tilt the motor just a bit. You should here a click, and then let the motor back down. Flip the lever again, raise motor slightly, and then it should lower all the way back down.

-Don Jones
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Don,

Do you think that this "troll lever" could be causing the motor to bind?

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

djones
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 13:30:35

I wouldn't think so Buzz. Those are pretty much two separate moving axis'. When I first got my C25, the 9.9 Johnson on it had trouble steering by hand. It doesn't have a tiller. There is a friction adjustment screw on the side that was too tight. I imagine if someone kept forcing the motor around with the friction too tight, and also not having enough grease in there, it might eventually cause binding (metal particles, etc). Once that screw is loose, it should almost be like bicycle steering columns, very loose.

I did once have an outboard that had a bent tilt lock arm, and it had very positive "bang" when steering the motor to that side when it hit. Very obvious.

I have a 25HP mercury on a jon-boat. It will be a few days, but I'll take a close look at it for anything that might foul things up. Most small Mercurys are pretty similar.

-Don Jones, '83 C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

djones
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2002 : 14:02:20

Buzz, I had one more thought. When I inherited this Merc. moter, the first time I put grease in it, I had to hit it with almost 20 strokes of the gun before the old grease started oozing out of the bushings. I don't think it ever had a good greasing before, and it was almost totaly dry. I was surprised how much it needed.

-Don

Hmm...I don't think I've ever tried to spell "oozing" before...hope it's close.

Happy Holidays!

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 12:10:14

UPDATE ... we went sailing yesterday, and I took another look at the outboard before we left the slip. I haven't been able to figure out a way to fix the binding, but it helps to swear at it when the outboard gets stuck.

The bottom of the outboard's tiller is binding on the bracket that holds the outboard onto the engine mount. I took a photo, and you can see where the two pieces hit each other (just below the fuel line, and above the grease fitting on the right side):

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc09b3127cce93485b08d8690000001410" border=0>

Does anyone know what would cause binding between these parts? Does it have anything to do with this gizmo NOT being installed?

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2ce03b3127cce9100cbef95d50000001410" border=0>

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2002 : 13:36:15

Buzz,

Several months ago we talked about the "gizzmo" and decided that it controlled the angle of the shafts entry into the water. I think it was called a 'trim tab lever"(?). If tht wasn't installed the shaft of the motor would angle slightly forward and might cause the engin block compartment to bind on the shaft. Sounds liker a winner to me.

All that said, I don't think that solves the problem you are describing. I'd think you need to raise the tiller, what half an inch or so, or lower the bracket that amount. But its ultimately all one unit, so . . ..

Good luck!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2002 : 15:12:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does it have anything to do with this gizmo NOT being installed?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I've had a Mariner and a Merc in the past and I'm pretty sure that gizmo is what sets the tilt of your motor. When the motor is engaged it should rest on that pin which is installed horizontally through a set of holes in the motor mount. Pick the set of holes that keeps the engine plumb. When you want to go trolling another spring loaded bracket should drop down to engage that same pin.

To answer your question, very probably yes. Hope this helps.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk
<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/fullsail.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - ben - fl on 12/29/2002 15:14:29

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2002 : 18:41:52

The tilt adjustment pin ("gizmo") should definitely be installed, at least in the foward holes on the transom mount. That binding point is behind the tilt pivot point, and is probably caused by the motor leaning back/down too far without the pin installed.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 06:31:58

Dave's last comment is what I was talking about.

But as I looked at you picture and figured what the trim tab aduster rod would do (the gizzmo), in my mind I saw the head of the motor and the tiller moving down on the bracket. If I'm picturing this correctly that would increase the interferance between the tiller and the bracket.

Is smy thought clear, and does it make sense?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 08:47:25

Without the gizmo...look for the motor to possibly rare up when using reverse with any assertiveness. On the outboards I've owned, the gizmo is in the lockdown chain.

<img src="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/images/helming.jpg" border=0>
Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 12:22:40

Without the gizmo...look for the motor to possibly rare up when using reverse with any assertiveness. On the outboards I've owned, the gizmo is in the lockdown chain. - Arlyn

"Possibly rare up ... " That's an understatement ... it practically flies up into the ionosphere! As I said before, when I'm trying to back out of the slip, it is a real goat rope.

OK, I guess I'm going to have to figure out where that pin goes ... 'sounds like that is at least part of the problem that is causing the binding, as well as a runaway engine in reverse.

I guess I'm going to have to pull the engine off the mount to operate on it. Thanks to everyone for the help ... I'll let y'all know if I figure it out.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 14:01:18

Don't pull the engine off yet! Assuming that pin belongs to your engine, it is easily installed though any of the pairs of holes on the outside of the transom mount (in our case, the "bracket mount") with the motor tilted up. You should be able to reach it from the cockpit with the bracket raised. The spring on one end puts pressure on the little "tongue" on the other end, which keeps the pin from slipping out. (If the spring doesn't work that way, it may be the wrong pin for the motor.) When you lower the motor to its operating position, the pin holds it away from the bracket, and the pairs of holes allow you to select a position that makes the shaft vertical.

And Arlyn is right--there is likely to be a hook that catches the pin when the you shift into reverse, preventing the motor from tilting. No pin, no reverse lock. This may solve all of your problems--at least the ones you've posted here... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 22:30:03

Buzz,

Just a thought, but have you checked around the marina and looked at some other motors/mounts to see if/how that pin is installed on other motors?

Seems to me I recall a similar pin on my grandfather's old Johnson outboard that was indeed the pin you placed in the vertical row of holes on the mount to adjust the angle of the shaft housing on a transom with a given amount of rake to it. It also, as Arlyn states, should keep the motor in position when backing. You're more than welcome to crawl around Ruah to see if there's a similar set-up on the Honda. (Sorry to say, I can't recall exactly how my own motor is connected in that regard.)

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - bren737 on 12/30/2002 22:48:23

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 22:57:20

"I guess I'm going to have to pull the engine off the mount to operate on it." - Buzz

You shouldn't have to pull the motor because most adjustments for outboards are designed to be done from inside a boat. My old Johnson had the same gizmo for adjusting trim and it was also used to lock the motor down in reverse. The outboard had about six different pairs of holes that were along the motor mount in a crescent shape, which could be accessed if the motor was tilted up and off the pin. Initially, I would try inserting the pin in the set of holes that have the most wear(chipped paint...etc), because that is mostly likely where it goes.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 08:09:40

With respect to Arlyn, if that pin is anything like the identical piece on my 1985 Mariner, it controls the tilt of the outboard when in forward, not reverse. What most small outboards have to keep them from flying up when in reverse is a tilt lock lever, which usually has to be depressed to tilt the motor forward. If that level isn't fully up when the motor is down, the tilt isn't locked and the motor will lift in reverse.

Buzz, I suspect you're going to have to bite the bullet and take the motor off the mount and find the bolt that controls the tightness on the yaw axis. That bolt may either need some grease or may be corroded and need replacing.

Hey, it's more profitable than spending New Year's Day watching steroid-laced mutants jumping on a pigskin.

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 12/31/2002 08:10:39

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 11:12:55

Brooke,

Right on about the lockdown lever, my comment about the gizmo being "in the chain" is that the lock down lever grabs the gizmo...if its not there....no grab.

<img src="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/images/helming.jpg" border=0>
Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 13:39:15

"...if that pin is anything like the identical piece on my 1985 Mariner, it controls the tilt of the outboard when in forward, not reverse. What most small outboards have to keep them from flying up when in reverse is a tilt lock lever, which usually has to be depressed to tilt the motor forward." - Brooke

Yes, on most outboards that pin controls the tilt in forward(and reverse), but it also is the attachment point for the tilt lever lock. On my old outboard, when the tilt lock lever was engaged, a clamping device would take hold of the tilt pin to keep the motor from rearing up in reverse.

What is interesting is the gizmo(Mercury?) in Buzz's picture is identical to the pin in my old Johnson 9.9.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 13:40:40

Arlyn: now I see what you meant. You are, as they say on Mr. Rogers, correct as always, King Friday. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Brooke

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2003 : 10:24:03

UPDATE ... I went to work on the boat yesterday, and one of the first things I did was to fiddle with the outboard. I stood on my head over the transom, looked for the most-worn hole (Don's suggestion), and wrestled the pin in there.

VOILA! I don't know how putting a pin in the lower part of the engine shaft cured binding up at the tiller handle, but it sure did. Now the engine swivels back and forth like it is supposed to. I haven't tried backing up yet to see if it also cured the "rearing up" in reverse, but I'll bet that is fixed too.

The weather is beautiful this weekend, so I'm hoping to get in some sailing ... 'can't wait to see how the outboard performs.

Thanks everyone for the help! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2003 : 11:50:30

Way to go, Buzz!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

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