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Winter coming early

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/28/2011 : 06:59:29

I'm in the Philadelphia, PA area. Actually, I'm about 15 miles west northwest of center city, and I can get to some of the outer edges of the city in about 20 minutes. We are 400' above sea level, so we're certainly not Denver or anything. Yet my forecast for tomorrow is 2-4" during the day, 3-5" at night. I'm not sure whether those are discrete accumulations, or if the evening's is cumulative, but apparently I'll be looking at 3-9" of snow on Sunday. In October.

My boat is still in the water (I think). The main and jib are off, as are the cushions and most other "soft" stuff, but she doesn't have a cover on her. Assuming I get myself dug out at a reasonable time on Sunday, should I be worried about rushing out to check on her?

- Jim
Formerly of 1984 C25 named Dragon Wing

NOTE: In my case, PLEASE don't confuse stars/number of posts with actual knowledge. On any topic.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 07:12:54

Look up your 10 day forecast, i.e. how warm is it expected to get after the snowfall. This early in the season, odds are fairly good that any accumulation will melt off fairly soon. But, I live in TN, not the northeast!
Regarding Denver, we were there 3-4 years ago the first weekend in November right after their first snowfall of the season. Temps were in the 60's while we were there. The day after we left, it snowed big, so we were lucky for our trip. Point it, there was a window to take action.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 07:16:32

David,
Thanks, your reply made me look at the forecast for where the boat is (duh!) - no significant accumulation there. I may still go out, but at least I won't have to pack a snow shovel!

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 08:41:57

"Brandy" had about 3" of snow dumped on her last night here in upstate N.Y. Working to finish covering her up before possibly Sat night again up this way. Boat deck has never seen snow in the 11 years I have owned her till last night. Did get 3 yards cleaned of fallen leaves though.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 09:11:15

While the Potomac river can freeze over up where I am , oftentimes, I can sail all year except for any snow dumps. I have a custom cover (see my website) but I do not put it on unless a snow dump is predicted followed by potential for another snow dump with very cold temps. Otherwise, if it is just a single storm passing and snow is predicted to be 3" or less, I do not put the cover on. I'll inspect and possibly clear the snow out of the cockpit but generally a 3" snow is not a big concern. If it is predicted to be any more than 3", then the cover goes on and may come off 2 days later depending on the weather predictions for the next several days or more. Some years, I have put the cover on 2-3 times and removed it just a few days later and went sailing.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 09:56:44

Chance of flurries in SW PA tomorrow

We'll accept that discomfort in exchange for the final and wonderful sail of the season we had last Sunday

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 14:02:48

I've left my boat in the water a little longer than I did last year in hopes of getting one or two more sails in. I'm glad I did not haul last weekend, because we had a nice sail on Monday. I might have planned to haul this weekend, but it sounds like it would have been canceled anyway due to wind and cold. Plus, it's low tide during daylight this weekend, so not good for getting the boat to the sling lift.

While the boat is in the water, I am considering tenting a tarp over the boom to minimize snow in the cockpit. But not sure whether the winds would shred it and stress everything it's attached to (bad) or whether the flapping would continuously knock the snow off if it (good).

Two years ago we did a cleanout and threw out my son's plastic toy snow shovel. A month later after we got the boat we realized it was a huge mistake, as it would be PERFECT for shoveling out the cockpit and decks. I may have to go see what Toys R Us has in stock for the winter.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 15:22:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 ...Two years ago we did a cleanout and threw out my son's plastic toy snow shovel. A month later after we got the boat we realized it was a huge mistake, as it would be PERFECT for shoveling out the cockpit and decks...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I have one for exactly that--perfect!

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 16:19:46

Forget the 3" we saw last night, could be a foot tomorrow night. Snow really mostly unheard of up here in October. Did get the tatp on today though. Can't even blame it on the temps in the Pacific Ocean yet. Go figure.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2011 : 18:04:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear
 Can't even blame it on the temps in the Pacific Ocean yet. Go figure.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Leave us out of it. It isn't snowing here!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 12:12:55

Snow just west and North of us. Some flakes in our area but not sticking right now. Tomorrow it is to be sunny and in the 50s.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 12:16:34

We have about 3" on our patio furniture. It looks to have turned into rain now.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4021 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 12:46:07

So as I look out my widow at this freak snow/nor'easter we are having, I'm contemplating about maybe leaving Impulse in the water this winter and do like Lary does. I am scheduled to be hauled out next week but I could just tell the Marina to leave it in. It would be nice to go sailing on nice days through the winter. Ive never done this before and I'm a little apprehensive about it. Ive gone up to the Marina (15 min. drive during the winter and yes it does get some icing of about 2in. during the colder weather in Jan./Feb but I have walked the docks to look at the boats that are in the water and they all appear to be OK with about 1/2 in. of water around the hulls and if you touch them they all are moving freely. I would have to do the usual things, Empty all the water from the tank and hoses, Pour Antifreeze down both sinks and close the sea-cocks, Shovel any snow out of the cockpit to keep the drains clear after major snow dumps. My major concern is not snow but an extended length of time of below freezing temps that would increase the ice thickness. The water temp. get to around 36 deg by late Jan into Feb. so this is the most vulnerable time for ice. Any input would be welcome here cuz I've changed my mind over and over for the past week. On the up side I would save about $550.00 on my winter storage if I leave her in the water, Would be able to keep sailing through at least Nov.part of Dec. Won't have to wait for April 15 when they start to launch. The down side, Will I be able to get any sleep in Jan.-Feb. Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 13:31:07

Scott, I've had the same deliberations. Our marina allows both in-water and dry winter storage. The owner said "I wouldn't leave that boat in the water all winter." That was enough for me this season.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5897 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 13:41:25

I timed my return to Ohio perfectly this year. We haven't had any snow yet in southern Ohio, but it got down into the 30s my second night back. The next day, that cold front got to the Chesapeake Bay, and, if I was still there, it would have been a very frosty walk up the hill to the showers the next morning! Instead, it was just a few steps down the heated hall from my bedroom to the shower. Life is good!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 14:19:11

I think a dodger can make a huge difference in extending the season into the late fall and early spring. There's really no way to rig one for a C250. I have seen some on C25s. We're hauling next weekend.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 15:49:19

Preparing to depart for boat retrieval this morning. Thankfully it was warmer and only light flurries at the lake. Great sail last week was still worth it.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 21:32:12

Leaving the boat in all year-round and sailing on the good days definitely has it's benefits but there are concerns. Obviously, if for some reason, one was to fall overboard or the boat was to develop a significant leak while onboard, even if wearing a life preserver, you would probably be history based on the hypothermia that would set in. Most hypothermia gear would be very expensive and cumbersome to wear...So you do sail with more risk than during summer months. Another thing is to leave your motor in the up/vertical position allowing water to fully drain out of the outboard. Then pull/start the outboard to turn the prop a few times and that will ensure any water laying on the water impeller is flung off and will not ice on the impeller. (My outboard in the up/vertical position is clear of the water except for one prop partially in the water.)

Winter sailing is a great time of year with very low motorboat traffic. There are quite a number of days when the wind is gently blowing and no thunderstorms to be concerned with appearing out of nowhere. So, it is a good contrast with summer. You can get some work done and then go out for a few hours sailing.

One thing that makes keeping the boat in all winter possible for me:

My marina in DC/Potomac River area has flow movers (and some bubblers) which they set up/turn on as the winter season approaches. That basically keeps the area around our boats relatively free of ice. Any ice that does form near the boat or in the channel between the slips due to a flow mover not advantageously located, is very thin ice. When I had a boat in Huntington Harbor, Long island it was on a mooring and I had the boat taken out each winter. Some of the marinas in that harbor, though, do have flow movers or bubblers and so I would recommend if keeping the boat in all year, then ensure no thick ice will form near the boat by locating it where there are flow movers or bubblers. If for some reason there is an unexpected deep freeze over several days/weeks, ice can form around the boat and can cause damage if thick enough. Those located further south somewhere below DC area can get usually get away with boat in water all year-round and with no flow movers/bubblers. But most docking areas north of there (unless in areas that never freeze due to the turbidity of the water) would most likely need to have flow movers/bubblers or take significant risk if temps drop below freezing for an extended period causing harbor areas to ice over.

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/29/2011 21:37:03

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2011 : 21:49:39

When I was growing up in the early '70s we had an aluminum Kings Craft houseboat that we left at Ft. Washington Marina's covered slips all winter. (Covered slips were a whopping $2/ft per month, instead of $1/ft for uncovered slips.) They had a bubbler system, and the boat had two kerosene heaters that kept it warm enough for us to do weekend sleepovers at the marina through the whole winter.

We typically did not venture out of the slip in the winter, but I vividly remember one Christmas eve when the evening temp was around 70F. My father couldn't resist the opportunity to head up the river to look at the Christmas lights, so he blew all the antifreeze out of the mainfolds and off we went. That was a terrific night.

<center>

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[Not our boat - a recently renovated sister ship.]

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/29/2011 21:51:31

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 07:06:13

We had to drain the pool last night due to the heavy rains.
JD is under her tarp in the yard next to the house, sails are at the cleaners in Fort Lauderdale, boom is in the garage, engine is flushed.

Temp has dropped into the 70s, we're looking around for our long sleeved shirts.

if we get a bigger boat, anyone interested in holidaying for a few weeks during the winter

Paul

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 07:56:15

Paul, that was just mean! Yesterday, we made snowmen and went sledding.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 17:51:56

Scott,
If I could I would leave Passage in over the winter in CT. My marina requires that I vacate by Halloween and I came out on Friday).
Generally (3 out of 4) winters, the salt water does not freeze up even in the bays. However, when it does, it can take you by surprise. Rather than all the water icing up uniformly, you can get large groups of floes (chunks of ice) that roam around from place to place driven by the wind and currents.
So some years, your part of the bay will be clear of ice, and other years, a whole flock of floes will show up and bang up your hull, or worse, will pile up around your boat. Ruin your bottom paint for sure.
When we get weeks at a time in the teens (usually mid January), you'll see them develop.
I used to take the Port Jeff ferry for work a few days a week during a project, and that year was pretty cold. One day, as the ferry was making a crossing, we encountered a very large floe that was about a mile square. Rather than plow through, the ferry stopped short and turned to pass to its windward edge.
Also, when I was at the Brewers' marina in the Housatonic River, I always hauled the boat during the winter. I asked myself whether I might not be better off staying in the water, as for several years they had no ice at all. Then one particularly cold year right after a rain and thaw, the floes arrived one day from upriver and nearly tore out the fingers due to the sheer weight of the ice.
The boatyard was so busy saving their docks that they would not have had any time or inclination to pull my boat.
So where there are no currents or protected waters, then no problem -- if things start to freeze up, just make sure you can get your boat over to the haulout area.
Or, if the winter stays warm, then you're golden!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 19:26:18

We were at our family vacation home in east TN hill country this weekend, no sailing. After arriving in a foggy, cold drizzle Friday night, we enjoyed 2 cloudless days with temps in the 60's and nights in the high 30's. Today we cleaned and prepped the house for renters arriving this week for Homecoming at a nearby university. My brother and I rent the house, or "cottage" as they are called, about 6-8 weeks each year to help cover expenses.
Sorry about the storm you guys in the northeast are having to deal with.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 19:29:08

A big current-driven ice flow hit our dock one evening while I was out there... Very exciting! This was several acres of ice about 4" thick, which works out to around 760,000 lbs. per acre. At about 1.5 knots, the momentum is phenomenal--pilings rocking back and forth and finger docks jumping up and down! I went running for shore! Glad my boat wasn't there!

BTW, salt water freezes more readily than some might expect... and as it does, the ice is fresh water--the salt is left behind in the water below the ice. One night below freezing and the calm, salty Mystic River estuary starts skinning over. A few days of that, and we have inches of ice.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/30/2011 21:45:03

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2011 : 19:32:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Sorry about the storm you guys in the northeast are having to deal with.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If the leaves had already dropped, it would've been no big deal. But they hadn't, so it was a BIG deal!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2011 : 03:41:54

Unbelievable that a storm this early produced 4" of ice already ! Me thinks that takes more than one or two days of warm weather for it to disappear ?

It is cold down hear this morning...around 32F but then a warming trend sets in with it being around 50F this afternoon and believe the rest of the week will be okay as well.

I'm heading down by car to the marina where I sailed my boat to 1 1/2 weeks ago (about 8-9 miles downriver from my marina). They were to haul it out but the contractor that is to do the waterproofing on my boat was delayed finishing up another sailboat and he wants to put me in same maintenance area. That other sailboat work should have been completed last Thursday/Friday, so believe he is giving go-ahead to the marina to haul me out and place my boat in his facilities area (They share the same basic location). I am planning on leaving work early today and see what's going on. If they do not haul me out today, then it should be tomorrow ? Anyway...good weather right now !

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/31/2011 03:43:29

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