Association Forum - kelly hansen sail update

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

kelly hansen sail update

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

sailtim
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
10 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/12/2011 : 18:00:19

I was surprised to find a package at my post office sent to me from a sail loft, not kelley hansen. Inside is the storm sail that I ordered in a kelley hansen sailbag.I threw the box away but it nowhere referred to kelley hansen.

This is a beautiful bullet proof storm sail that appears to be well made.What a rediculous way to run a sail loft.

Since the box came from another sail loft it looks like they are finally out of business. They should be out of business by all standards of normal business.

Tim Erwin
Rockport, Texas
" Bohemian "
1984 TR/FK
361-229-3641

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2011 : 18:45:32

Do you remember the name on the box? There are some indications that they may have re-surfaced under a different name. Maybe they are trying for a fresh start!

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/12/2011 18:47:10

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2011 : 21:20:37

Ouch - sounds like it could be a major problem.

So here's my quandary - My genoa's sacrifical strip has about worn out completely.

Seems North Sails would like me to pay about $500 to replace it.
Thought that it might cost me just a few hundred dollars more to buy a new head sail.
Anybody priced one out lately?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2011 : 21:48:12

A furling head sail (ie. 150%) from North, Doyle or Quantum is going to cost you well over $1000 and that would be for a custom-made with taking the measurements on your boat. If not furled and they do not come down to your boat and it is smaller than a 150...well maybe then about $900. If you buy an off the shelf over the web from one of the sailmakers that others on the Forum have had good experiences with...(ie. Ullman, FX, etc)...then figure it will be depending on size and if furling between $700 - $900. There have been some on the Forum that have paid leass from...believe Rolly Tasker, etc sailmakers and they are probably coming in around $500 - $700 depending on size and if furling. I could be off but that is my impression of the expenses.

I am sure that like North, Quantum and Doyle will also charge in same cost brcket as they quoted you for replacing that strip. These 3 sailmakers are the largest and most popular in the country with many lofts. They charge a lot, make good sails but even they will have many of their sails made by their overseas lofts. But when you need work done to your sail, that work is done at the local North, Quantum or Doyle loft and the costs are very expensive....and probably about the same at each of these three. You probably wold get off with a less expensive repair if you went to a local loft other than one of the big three.

Buying a new sail is once again...not just about cost. You have to weigh what you want out of that sail and how frequently you sail under what average conditions. If you infrequnetly sail, a less expensive sail may be just right for you and will hold up for many years. But if you sail frequently and are more performance oriented (even if not a racer), generally the sail cloth used in less expensive sails will be somewhat more prone to stretch in a few years time. The more expensive sails are genrally made of a tighter weave, less prone to stretch, dacron matl and will hold up longer without getting blown out for the sailor that frequently sails.

So...cost is between...$500 and...$1300 depending on...a number of factors.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2011 : 22:30:07

Bruce: I'm guessing that's the sail you "inherited" from me... circa 1997 or something like that... I got a similar, somewhat startling quote from a very reputable loft in Stamford to replace the sun strips, which were treated Dacron, years ago. I decided (with no argument from them) to wait and replace the sail some day... it would not surprise me that the day has arrived.

IMHO, a genoa is somewhat less "scientific" in terms of shape and construction than a main. That said, I'd seek out local sources (North or whoever) and compare to a quote from Gary Swensen at Ullman Ventura--he/they know our boats and have gotten top reviews from our members. I believe in knowledge, reputation, and service, at a "reasonable" additional expense over the "best deal". YMMV.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/12/2011 22:31:56

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 07:03:14

A year or two ago, I purchased a [url="http://www.nsd.northsails.com/product/tabid/62/productid/114/sename/cat25-135t-catalina-25-135-tape-roller-furling/default.aspx"]North Sails RF 135[/url] for around $700.00. Nice sail, made in SRI Lanka, no problems so far. If you have a 15+ year old sail, to me, it doesn't make sense to spend $500.00 to replace the UV cover when a new sail can be had for relatively not much more. Buy a new sail, then sell the old one for a hundred bucks. I'm sure there are budget sailors out there looking for something serviceable.

Although I'm not a fan of them, you could remove the UV cover yourself then use a jib sock for protection. Or, just remove the UV cover altogether and use the sail until it deteriorates like the original cover.

Edited by - dlucier on 12/13/2011 07:22:29

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 09:56:25

Like others have said, if the sail is old as in your case, don't repair it. You will be happier with a new sail.

I have relatively new sails...well about 3 years or so old from Quantum. they cost me a bundle. The UV strip is like yours, made of the dacron sail matl. Since my boat is docked in an urban area, it is subject to a lot of rain contamination and the UV strip is quite discolored. Then, toward the end of this summer, I got caught is a brief but terrific wind storm when two nasty clouds passed overhead. I was single handed sailing and the wind was in excess of...35-40 mph but perhaps for only 1/2 hour and only under those clouds. That day you may have heard about since the news reports indicated that the guys repairing the Washington monumnet and repelling off the top to do the repairs were momentarily blown away from the monument. In any case, the UV strip ripped a small piece about 4" long. I decided to bring it back to Quantum for an assessment and to get my sails cleaned. I decided to replace the UV dacron strip with sunbrella matl since my main sail cover is made of the blue sunbrella matl and it does not show any rain contamination and is in perfect shape the 5 years I had it. Quantum indicated the sails were good shape except for the rip to the UV strip but they were removing it anyway and replacing it with the sunbrella matl. The cost including cleaning both sails was about $500.

By the way, Quantum asked where exactly am I sailing since the rain contamination on the UV strip had particulate mixed with oily stuff. I told them that I am docked right across from the Washington Natl Airport !! Thay may have somethingt to do with it.

I did not go the jib sock route but that is obviously a good alternative. In any case, I have my sails back improved and nice and clean. My old sails are currently on the boat. Thatw as what i used to sail it over to the marina that is going to do the waterproofing job....which I am still waiting...waiting for them to start. Meanwhile, I serviced the outboard including changing the water impeller out. Went fine. I am taking off a couple of hours today to visit my boat and perhaps do some interior wood treatment with the Howard's products...and hope they have started work on my hull. As of this past Saturday, they looked like they were just about ready to start removing the anti-fouling paint..so I will see if they are working it today.

Good luck with purchasing a new sail !

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/13/2011 10:01:10

Commodore
Russ Johnson

Members Avatar

USA
714 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 17:25:01

To All,

I have received a complaint about a reply to this post.
The complaint was from a sailmaker that is not associated with the sailmaker mentioned in this post.

If you have comments, please contact me directly.
Please do not post negative comments about any sailmaker unless you have personal experience. Please do not imply another sailmaker is associated with this now out-of-business sailmaker.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 19:05:11

Ya just can't hide from Google!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 19:16:27

Tim, not sure what the beef is. You got a great sail, by your your own words. It seems your only complaint is that it was sent from another sailmaker who you cant even remember. That is the strange part to me. You would have taken the box home to open it and the box has the name of who sent it. Maybe it came from the house who actually made the sail and not another sail maker. As far as I am concerned, you have no justification making the comment you did.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against bashing a company for poor work or service but there is not proof here, is there? Please correct me if I am wrong. I gladly stand corrected with documentation.
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 19:17:11

Sailcare quoted $132 to remove my old UV strip and 345 to relace it with new dacron. That's about $500

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 19:21:24

Dave, for not much more, you can get a new sail. Unless you have a super duper splendicious one!

Steve A

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 19:49:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Tim, not sure what the beef is. You got a great sail, by your your own words. It seems your only complaint is that it was sent from another sailmaker who you cant even remember. That is the strange part to me. You would have taken the box home to open it and the box has the name of who sent it. Maybe it came from the house who actually made the sail and not another sail maker. As far as I am concerned, you have no justification making the comment you did.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against bashing a company for poor work or service but there is not proof here, is there? Please correct me if I am wrong. I gladly stand corrected with documentation.
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If Tim didn't receive the exact product that he bargained and paid for, in the amount of time that it was promised, then he has a legitimate complaint. If he bought a sail from a company that went out of business, and received a sail from a different company, without explanation, he has good reason to be concerned that his warranty will not be honored. If a company took my money, promising to provide me a product or service, and then went out of business, leaving me to wonder which, if any, of their promises they were going to keep, any reasonable person would be upset.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/13/2011 19:59:21

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 20:42:54

Here is an interesting fact. A [url="http://www.wingzsailboats.com/contactus.htm"]company known as Wings Sailboats[/url] has the same address and phone number as [url="http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityDetail.do?quitButtonDestination=BusinessEntityResults&fileId=20101284942"]the company formerly known as Kelly-Hanson Sails[/url].

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/13/2011 21:22:42

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 20:43:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Tim, not sure what the beef is. You got a great sail, by your your own words. It seems your only complaint is that it was sent from another sailmaker who you cant even remember. That is the strange part to me. You would have taken the box home to open it and the box has the name of who sent it. Maybe it came from the house who actually made the sail and not another sail maker. As far as I am concerned, you have no justification making the comment you did.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against bashing a company for poor work or service but there is not proof here, is there? Please correct me if I am wrong. I gladly stand corrected with documentation.
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If Tim didn't receive the exact product that he bargained and paid for, in the amount of time that it was promised, then he has a legitimate complaint. If he bought a sail from a company that went out of business, and received a sail from a different company, without explanation, he has good reason to be concerned that his warranty will not be honored. If a company took my money, promising to provide me a product or service, and then went out of business, leaving me to wonder which, if any, of their promises they were going to keep, any reasonable person would be upset.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First of all, when I read Tim's original post I didn't take it as though he was bashing the company, just making a comment while shaking his head about the way this company was run. In fact he gave a positive statement about the sail he received -- "This is a beautiful bullet proof storm sail that appears to be well made".

Steve Milby, I agree!

If I'm not mistaken he's been waiting since early spring to get his sail. When it didn't show up at the time he was quoted he called (several times) to inquire about when he would receive it. If I'm not mistaken he was given several different dates that came and went IF he could even get someone to call him back.

All of the above on top of other complaints we've heard about over the past few years from other people who've dealt with the company mentioned above.

Tim's been a lot calmer over the many months than I would have been.

Just my worthless opinion! I'll go back to my hole now.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 20:46:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Tim, not sure what the beef is. You got a great sail, by your your own words. It seems your only complaint is that it was sent from another sailmaker who you cant even remember. That is the strange part to me. You would have taken the box home to open it and the box has the name of who sent it. Maybe it came from the house who actually made the sail and not another sail maker. As far as I am concerned, you have no justification making the comment you did.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against bashing a company for poor work or service but there is not proof here, is there? Please correct me if I am wrong. I gladly stand corrected with documentation.
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Huh??? Not sure what the beef is? Tim orders a sail in April of this year, waits the four weeks, then another four weeks, the company charges his account, then won't take his calls or emails, and he just now is receiving the sail? Yeah, I think he's got a legitimate beef.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18827& whichpage=1

I'm beginning to think someone's got a relative in the sailmaking business???

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 21:15:56

BTW, the company that has received numerous complaints and is no longer taking internet orders is Kelly-Hanson, not Kelly Hansen. The former is spelled with a hyphen and "on" at the end. The latter is an individual in the music business not related to sailing or selling sails.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 22:35:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Dave, for not much more, you can get a new sail. Unless you have a super duper splendicious one!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yep, I was just throwing it in for price comparison. I'm stripping it myself and going with a sock until the sail needs replacing.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 13:33:59

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 18:56:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Tim, not sure what the beef is. You got a great sail, by your your own words. It seems your only complaint is that it was sent from another sailmaker who you cant even remember. That is the strange part to me. You would have taken the box home to open it and the box has the name of who sent it. Maybe it came from the house who actually made the sail and not another sail maker. As far as I am concerned, you have no justification making the comment you did.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against bashing a company for poor work or service but there is not proof here, is there? Please correct me if I am wrong. I gladly stand corrected with documentation.
Steve Auerbach, Treasurer<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve, I totally agree with your supposition but as you say, "IF". Maybe I missed something but dont see verification of any of the points you mentioned.
Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Proof of what? Relevant to whom? Who complained? Nobody has told us. Is Arthur Kelly complaining, or Kelly-Hanson, or ***? How are we supposed to know what to prove unless someone tells us who is complaining and what he's complaining about? Which of the statements made in the thread are purported to be false? I wouldn't think they were all false, but it appears that truthful comments were deleted along with the purportedly false. I am especially troubled, however, that the officers of the Association were, according to the representation of the Commodore, threatened with lawsuit. That is not, to my way of thinking, a well-considered way to win friends and engender goodwill. That strikes me as heavy-handed - something akin to swatting a gnat with a sledgehammer, and it seems especially inappropriate when the persons threatened with lawsuit were not the people who made the assertions. It occurs to me that, by threatening our officers with a lawsuit over statements not made by them, someone (whoever is the complainant) has probably engendered far more animosity among our members than if they had just left it alone, but that's just my opinion based on 35 years of trial practice.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2011 : 19:11:28

Well said. It is unfortunate that the unknown party chose a heavy-handed approach. Coming onto the forum, introducing him/herself, and explaining his/her business and how it might benefit us would have been a much better approach. I'm willing to listen. For now, I will refrain from commenting further.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.