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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

C250 rigging mods

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hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/21/2011 : 18:28:55

G'day,

I'm looking at buying the 250WK (currently own an M27 racing yacht looking to do more cruising) and was wondering if any one out there has had experiences with the following rigging mods.

Running backstay, looking to put a 8:1 system on the backstay (wireblock + 4:1 fiddle blocks)

Extending the length of the traveller.

Want to run everything back to clutches at the cockpit (by my calculations about 4 clutches per side), but does that restrict movement over the cabin top greatly.

I also notice there appears to be no cunningham on the rig or am I just missing something.

Appreciate the feedback.

Cheers,

Hugh Bamford

SonoRay II 250wk #1007

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2011 : 20:20:21

Welcome to the Forum Hugh.

The extra headroom of the WK makes for good cruising, on our C250 WB we have double clutches on each side of the cabin top. Port are Reef lines (we have for and aft reeflines setup) Stbd are Main halyard and Vang.

That leaves the outhaul and topping lift. However we have a boom kicker, so we don't adjust the topping lift, it's just left slightly loose with the main up.

We do have a furling jib and the CDI furling line runs aft to the cleat just to port of the port winch.

The Jib halyard is currently only used for raising/lowering the mast, but that's about to change as we just got a new to us asym spinnaker. So we'll have the spinnaker tack line to deal with and the sheets which I intend to run aft to a block on the cat-bird seats and then to jamb cleats on each combing.

How do you see your 4 clutches each side being used?

Paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2011 : 20:56:37

Welcome Hugh! Just a comment on your "running backstay" question... Assuming you mean a split, adjustable backstay, I'll suggest that the geometry of the C-250's mast-head rig, with its single lower shrouds, is not conducive to mast bending for shape control the way you're used to doing it with the fractional M27 rig. If you're looking for that kind of control, I think you want either forward lower shrouds or (even better) a fractional rig. The C-250, on the grand scale, is designed for the "casual" cruising marketplace.

Edited by - on

hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2011 : 03:00:10

G'day All,

Thanks for all the info.

Had a look at another guys 250 and was impressed by the space and the separate head (the wife is tired of the bucket)

With regard to the clutches I'm looking to run most things back to the cockpit as I'll sail single / short handed a lot. Thinking of running reef X 2, vang, outhaul, main halyard, assy sail halyard, cunningham and topping lift (there goes the bank account)

Thanks for the heads up on the mast bend, got to move into cruising mode instead of racing mode.

Thanks again and any other ideas / comments greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Hugh Bamford

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2011 : 05:00:47

Hugh, where do you plan on sailing?

Paul

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2011 : 08:20:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hughbamford
 G'day,

I'm looking at buying the 250WK (currently own an M27 racing yacht looking to do more cruising) and was wondering if any one out there has had experiences with the following rigging mods.

Running backstay, looking to put a 8:1 system on the backstay (wireblock + 4:1 fiddle blocks)

Extending the length of the traveller.

Want to run everything back to clutches at the cockpit (by my calculations about 4 clutches per side), but does that restrict movement over the cabin top greatly.

I also notice there appears to be no cunningham on the rig or am I just missing something.

Appreciate the feedback.

Cheers,

Hugh Bamford
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Welcome, Hugh. You'll find a lot of good information in this forum.

As I read your initial post, the first thought that came to my mind is that you're really looking to make the C250 into a racer/cruiser. I'm not a racer, but after sailing my 250 for 5 years, I know that she's just not a racing boat. I think you might be dissappointed if you really want to race but are buying the boat with more room below to satisfy some other need. There are other boats that bridge these two kinds of sailing better.

Have you had an opportunity to sail on a C250? I'd suggest trying to hitch a ride on one for an afternoon and see if my kind of sailing. I don't mean to talk you out of a 250. I'm just not sure our coastal cruising sailboat is what you're looking for.

BTW, I singlehand my 250 most of the time. In fact, when the family is aboard, I still singlehand with just a little help from the "crew".

I have single-line reefing to a clutch on the port side and leaving a clutch free. To starboard, I have my main halyard and will run my boom vang aft next season. My topping lift is rigged on the side of the boom along with my lazyjacks.

Edited by - John Russell on 12/22/2011 08:21:42

hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2011 : 01:44:24

G'day John and Paul,

Thanks for the replies.

My main sailing future is coastal cruising off the Western Australian coast, we have prevailing strong winds here, according to some stats we are the 3rd windiest city in the world, therefore my main reason to want to control the shape of the sail so much is not for racing but more for dealing with sudden changes in wind velocity (the infamous Fremantle Doctor) and being able to adjust the sail (reef, flatten etc) as quickly as possible when out there in the ocean. I was hoping to adapt the C250 as best as possible to accommodate this.

My main attraction to the C250 is the space below with it's unique design. I really like the lines and when I was aboard one it just felt "right".

Thanks again to all for feedback and any other info is great.

Have a great Xmas all.

Cheers,

Hugh Bamford

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2011 : 08:03:05

Interesting local conditions:

The World Championships are taking place from 3rd to 18th December 2011 offshore from Perth at the beginning of the Australian summer and the predominant weather conditions at this time of the year favour very exciting racing due to the strong winds and waves.

The “Fremantle Doctor”, as this wind is called by the locals, usually starts in the afternoon and provides a welcome cooling in the form of a refreshing sea breeze after the heat of the day. Perth is known to be one of the windiest towns in the world, ensuring that high-speed racing, full of adrenaline can be anticipated for both the sailors and the spectators.

Several of our Forum sailors enjoy sailing their C250s in strong winds, while others claim the boat is tender. Does the keel type or ballast system determine the relative stability of the C250? I'm sure others will chime in.

Edited by - JohnP on 12/23/2011 08:04:08

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2011 : 08:28:47

Keep in mind, that the C250 has a great deal of freeboard for its length. I reef my main at 10 knots. If I need a second reef, I head for the marina --- quickly! I really suggest you take one for a sail in your prevailing winds if at all possible. I love my boat and reccomend the C250 frequently but, it isn't the boat for all conditions.

Others here will say they don't go sailing until the small craft warnings are posted.

Edited by - on

vholmstrom
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2011 : 08:31:16

Hugh,

Our boat came with 1 clutch on each side of the boat for the halyards. I added a triple clutch on each side and installed 2 4-way deck organizers. The 4 starboard clutches are used for the main halyard, both lines for reef 1 and the outhaul. The 4 port clutches are used for the jib halyard, both lines for reef 2 and the halyard style topping lift. The boomvang can easily be reached from the cockpit as installed by Catalina. I do not have a cunningham. We also had a Doyle Stackpack with built in lazyjacks installed, which makes reefing and putting away the main much easier. Since you sail in an area with strong winds, you will probably want both reefs available.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2011 : 10:49:35

An adjustable backstay is a mixed bag on the 250. The only reason one would want one is if the rig is run loose... and then it could firm up the forestay and jib. It would do nothing to firm up the main and in fact make it worse. Usually the 250 is tuned for a firm rig as it does pretty well in light air without loosening it and it does very poorly in heavy air without it being firm.

If one is a cruiser and wants an on the fly tunable rig... there are ways, one is in addition to an adjustable back stay, a running babystay to the spreaders.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/babystay.html

A cunningham is of less value to a battened main sail... the better mod is to loose foot and increase the outhaul purchase.

A longer traveler is probably not of much benefit... again battens go a long way to keep sail shape.

Upping the purchase of the vang is of good benefit because of the need to keep the main off the spreader.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2011 : 09:44:46

I'll point out that Arlyn is sort of our C-250 guru, with considerable experience sailing the "big water" of Lake Huron--literally off-shore, in a water-ballasted model. (Unusual for a Texan.) His suggestions for a loose-footed, full-battened main are probably good ones for your conditions (and you probably knew that). Also, for "cruising mode", if your racing has deprived you of the experience of a roller furler, I'll recommend it. If you like hopping up on the coachroof and scrambling around on the foredeck (without side-decks and a cabin trunk) as some here do, more power to you.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/24/2011 09:45:55

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2011 : 20:40:26

Looks like you will need to get ready for high winds. I sail near Newport RI on Narraganset Bay and sometimes run into strong winds and steep chop. I don't mind it because my family likes the excitement. Trying to sail up wind in more than 15 kts or so is a bit sloppy. Though I only have one reef point I have often thought that a second reef on the main would be helpful. 250 sailors are always ready to spill wind when things begin to pipe up. As a racer your probably used to keeping one hand on the main anyway.

There are many good mods listed on our site for mounting the winches on the coamings near the wheel, though I have decided to keep things where they are to keep the cockpit clear, myself. I never seem to lack crew. People with a tiller and tiller extention probably have an easier time negotiating the winches on the cabin top.

Fair Winds

Vern Wright
"Hajime"

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2012 : 15:04:49

I have been sailing and handicap racing my 1999 Catalina 250 WK for three years. I have noted that it does not do as well against the competition in winds above 10 to 12 mph no matter how I manage reefing, furling, dumping the main in gusts, etc. In my opinion there are plenty of better choices, including older Catalina designs, for a high wind area.

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hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 22:23:25

G'day All,

Thanks again for the feedback and ideas.

Arlyn's website is fantastic and has shed heaps of light on issues we've been discussing - thanks.

I've managed to find a C250 owner in East Fremantle so I'll tee up a sail with him to test it in some strong winds.

I'm equally amazed at how relatively inexpensive second hand boats are in the USA, think I'll be bringing one across even with the freight etc it will still work out cheaper.

Fair winds to all,

Hugh Bamford

Edited by - on

hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 23:41:20

G'day All,

I've just put down the first deposit on a new 250WK, to say I'm pretty excited is an understatement.

I have had some mods made in the factory, which include ridding the boat of all horn cleats( always found them catching something on past yachts) extra clutches, extended traveller and upgraded the winches to 16ST. I'm sure there will be many other changes and mods to come, I'll keep you posted if they are a benefit or not.

Can't wait to get out there.

Cheers,

Hugh

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 12:14:49

Congratulations!

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