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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Gin Pole

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/30/2002 : 11:02:05

I've seen several references to a "gin pole" used to raise the mast on a C-25. It sounds to me that the purpose of the gin pole is to provide stability as the mast is raised. My question is this: is brute force a substitute for a gin pole? Can three guys lift the mast to vertical and then have another person go around and attach the shrouds and guys.

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 12:19:38

I've done it both ways.

With the mast laying down forward, I've found it very easy to use the boom as a gin pole (see tech tips http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bsmast.html). I haven't done this since adding a (non-flexible) furler.

With the mast laying down astern, I've lifted it up w/ brute force using two people to "walk the mast up" and a third handling the forestay w/ furler. This worked fine but felt a lot more risky, particulary with respect to side-to-side stability as the mast is going up.

My brother says he can raise the mast by himself using only the brute force technique. He also just had hernia surgery...

-Chris on "SPIRIT" C25 SR WK #5644

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 12:34:05

Hi Bruce,

I think you could raise the mast with three or four people without any problem. It isn't that heavy, it's just cumbersome because of its length.

If you step the mast from the stern, you can attach the backstay, the aft lower shrouds, and the main shrouds before you raise the mast (put some slack in the turnbuckles first). After the mast is up, just attach the forestay and it'll be secure enough so you can run around and adjust the rest of the rigging.

I built an A-frame similar to the one for "Bear's Abode" in the Tech Tips ... it works great! I can step the mast by myself without any problem. Here is a photo from Tech Tips:

<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bearsad2.jpg" border=0>

Good luck!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 13:44:09

"Can three guys lift the mast to vertical...?" - Bruce

Yes, three guys can do this and possibly two without the use of a gin pole or lifting rig. The mast isn't that heavy, just unwieldly. On my last boat, a Venture 25, I could step the mast singlehandedly without the use of gin poles or A-frame devices, just brute force, but I wouldn't recommend this with the C25's more robust mast. However, I do believe that it can be done with two reasonably strong men who are experienced enough to know what to expect, but it is nice to have that third person who can run around while the mast is being raised to ensure that lines and shrouds are not getting tangled. Once the hard part of lifting the mast is done and it is standing tall, very little effort is required to keep it up while one person runs around and secures the remaining stay and shrouds. Just remember to attach the appropriate shrouds and stay(depends on stepping direction, bow or stern) to the deck before raising the mast and be sure that they are not kinked or fouled.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 14:33:57

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"Can three guys lift the mast to vertical...?" - Bruce
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yes, we use two and on a side note, its easier walking from the bow aft.

Attache the forestay, and the uppers. Also attach a Line to the aftstay, althought you probably won't need it. Then, just like the worlds strong man pole lift, walk it hand over hand until one man is holding it on his shoulder right next to the tabernacle. The other guy grabs the line and pulls it into place, then attaches the aft stay. It isn't exactly a walk in the park , but it can be done.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 12/31/2002 08:34:40

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2002 : 21:07:06

"...on a side note, its easier walking from the bow aft." - Duane

That depends if you have roller furling. I don't think it would be easier raising my mast from the bow with the Harken roller furling unit.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 06:15:18

Y'awl,

I probably ought to stay out of this because I don't raise my mast on osmepneo, having my marina operator do it for me.

I always placed the top of the mast over the transom of the boat.

But, on my cat22 it was a fairly simple process and one very very important part of doing it was having the forward and middle shrouds and back stay loosely attached. On the cat22 the whole process required 2 people. I'd start in the aft of the cockpit with the mast on shoulder and walk forward to the cabin, then I'd step up onto the seats, and then again onto the cabin top. Once there I'd walk forward to the mast step, and the mast was raised. All that required one person, a socond person would help taking the mast from me at the cabin top and walking forward from there. Second guy would hold the mast forward while I fastened the forestay.

I think one person could do this if you fastened a halyard on the bow pulpit, and once the mast was vertical, tensioned this halyard.

I suspect the same basic methos would work with a cat25. but two or three extra hands would make the whole job easier.

BTW the primary reason I have marina guy do it is because of the roller furler. It really is a pain to connect the forestay with the furler unit on it.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 08:34:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
That depends if you have roller furling. I don't think it would be easier raising my mast from the bow with the Harken roller furling unit.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Good Point Don I didn't think about a furler... - We used to be in a docking situation where we went Ass End in. Because of the Travel Lift at this club we had to step the mast once the boat was in the water. Because of the logistics we would put the mast out over the transom. We would fight it left and right. Climbing through the cockpit, trying to get up on the cabin top while one guy was litterally hoping the other guy could go forward and lift the thing before the hernia became a reality.

We did it this way for years, until this past season where we were able to put the boat in on a much better travel lift where we could have the mast already stepped. The only problem was, that on the hard, the boat behind us was put in so close that our mast would have taken out his fly bridge. So we opted to go the other way (bow to stern). After attaching everything it took us all of 20 seconds to get the mast up because we were no longer going up hill.

Next year, we use the crane at the club. No lifting, no hernias...

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 12/31/2002 08:35:55

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 10:26:20

The "gin pole" is not really for stability.. it is used to help get the mast started off the deck if you are using the forestay/jib halyard or the backstay to do the lifting. Without a gin pole, you're trying to pull those lines horizontally... without much of a lifting component.

The further off the deck the mast is raised, the less the gin pole does to help. If you have enough muscle available to get the mast up to say 20 or 30 degrees... you've probably past the point of needing the gin pole.

Based on my own experience, the key element in any mast raising system is stabilizing the mast in the side-to-side direction. If you don't have to fight that... things can go pretty smoothly.

The Mac's and Ventures I've sailed had provisions for two quick-connect temporary side stays placed in line athwartships from the mast base to accomplish this task. They lead from cabin top level to a point about 6' up the mast on each side. Since they were in line with the mast base, their tension remained pretty constant as the mast swung up into position.

With those side stays in place, the Mac mast could easily be raised by one person using a deck winch by routing the jib halyard via a block mounted on the bow... then leading it aft to the winch.

Once you got the mast started up off the deck a bit, (I used muscle) you just ground away on the winch... with the temporary side stays in place, you could take all day if you wanted. The system gives you the luxury to pause halfway up and clear any tangles in the permanent stays.

When the mast was up, you just cleated the line off and went forward to connect the forestay.

I'm hoping to apply the same temporary side stay system to the Catalina... based on my experience, it will pay off big in making mast raising easier and safer.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2002 : 13:19:53

The hardest part when muscling up the mast is from horizontal to about 45 degrees. After 45 degrees, the center of gravity starts getting lower and lower on the mast making it easier to put up, and the closer you get to vertical, the more the shrouds keep the mast straight side-to-side. The muscle time it takes for me to get the mast from horizontal to vertical is actually only a few seconds so it's not like you'll be grunting for any length of time.

The hardest part, muscle wise, is that first 45 degrees because a good portion of the stick is out over the transom. When singlehandedly raising the mast on my Venture 25(from the stern), I constructed a device to hold my mast closer to 45 degress before grunting it all the way up. It consisted of my step ladder with a 2x4 lashed to it. The 2x4 had two 1x2x12's screwed to one end on to form a U-shaped mast holder. I would set the mast into the U, which elevated it at a higher angle, then loosely secured the mast step bolt, attached the backstay and shrouds and making sure they were not fouled or kinked, then proceeded to hoist the mast the rest of the way. Have both the mast step bolt and the clevis pin for the forestay handy before lifting the mast.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2003 : 15:31:29

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc10b3127cce9368cf030d260000001410" border=0>

I use a gin pole to raise my mast and it usually works great but I wanted to warn others that you need to make sure that there is very little slack in the shroud between the spreader and the masthead. In the picture you will notice the port spreader is bent down. As we raised the mast the rigging siezed at the spreader tip instead of sliding through consequently shortening the distance between the spreader and the deck. With the two of us pushing the mast up we weren't aware of the force we were using and the bracket was bent. The stainless spreader bracket needed to be replaced.
another little hint for those who trailer their boats make sure that you secure the turnbuckles that aren't attached to the boat. I tied the free turnbuckles to the mast with a line just just above the turnbuckles leaving them dangling by the rigging and consequently MISSING when I reached home.
Hope that helps someone.

Ray Clift
Buzz 1361 SK/TR
Oregon

Edited by - rclift on 01/02/2003 15:35:02

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