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Lessons learned from my first Sail Cleaning

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waterbaby
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USA
168 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/06/2012 : 15:22:40

1. Don't do it. Some things are better left to professionals. This is one of them.
2. If you have to do it yourself. Drink a couple of beers before you start. It'll help to minimize the frustration.
3. Don't do both main and headsail in the same day. One of them will kick your butt, two will nearly kill you.
4. The tarp you put down to keep the water from going everywhere will not help. Have every towel you own ready to mop up the flood.
5. The sails will not be perfectly white. They will be clean but not white. Get over it.
6. Climbing on a chair to lift a heavy wet sail over your head may be bad for your health. I don't think a ladder would have been any better.
7. Start this project early in the day. It will take hours to scrub the sails and you'll need time to let the sails dry once you're done.
8. Figure out how you're going to hang the sails to dry before you start. It's harder to figure that out when you're exhausted.
9. Do this on a warm day. Nothing like trying to hang floppy wet sails when it's 42 degrees outside. Did I mention you'll be wet? (OK you northern folks, I know I'm a whimp)
10. Really, don't do it. I mean it.

This is the last time I do this. I swear.

1986 TR/SK #5250 Sunshine

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 15:30:03

Karen,

For a minute there I suspected you were writing this from the back office of a sail loft. But, you've convinced me otherwise.

Thanks for sharing.

Edited by - OJ on 01/06/2012 15:32:54

islander
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Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 18:51:42

Karen, Explain how you went about doing this. Many here wash their sails without it being a hassle.

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waterbaby
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168 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 19:25:06

I read several ideas and then decided to follow the instructions on this site:

http://mothboat.tripod.com/CMBA/Building/sailclean.htm

I thought it'd be easier to scrub on the side of the tub than crawling over the floor. If I had a large clean space to lay the sail out on I might have done it differently. BTW we have very nasty red clay soil here, and when it rains it runs right down my driveway. I read that some folks lay their sails out on their driveway, but I think I'd end up with red sails if I tried that.

I knew it wasn't going to be any fun, but I really underestimated how heavy the sails would be once they were soaked. I'm going to really regret this tomorrow and the next day.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 19:34:40

Great stories, great attitude...the quote in your signature line says it all.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
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957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 20:04:13

I bought a $10 kiddie pool and some oxy clean. Worked great!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 21:12:44

Karen,
That sounds like a lot of work, and I hope your back survives the effort. I've cleaned sails before (much smaller than our C-250's) and know how much work it is. I've since opted for Sailcare. They did a great job on our main last year, and I sent them our 110% this year.

When I did it, I was able to use my driveway (no red clay here), but even with a large tarp down, it was a real PITA to do. I was able to lay out the sail on my lawn and let it dry there all day.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 22:13:24

I used to clean mine out on the dock at my marina every spring. I used detergent and a little bleach. The detergent gets the dirt and the bleach gets the black.

You get wet - no doubt about it - so pick a warm day.
Good thing about working on the dock is that it doesn't retain water. It drains right through.

I hung the sails up on the mast and they dried out pretty quickly. It takes about six hours to do and its a lot of work, but the results are pretty good.

After cleaning it myself a few years, I took it to North Sail for some touch up repairs and a good cleaning. It was clean, but by the end of the season, the sacrificial strip on the jib shredded completely. I wonder whether they cleaned it a little too well.

I guess I should have just done it myself again last year.

Edited by - on

waterbaby
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168 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 06:50:12

Thanks Delliottg and Voyager for confirming the difficulty of this chore. I've been trying to think of any way to do this where it wouldn't be so bad and although I can think of lots of ways to approach it they all would still be hard. Voyager, I'm sorry to hear that your cover blew up this year. You'd think they would have enough experience to clean the sails carefully. I did read that one sail servicing place uses a power washer which sounds a little rough to me. For future reference, can you give me some idea of what the charge is for a sail cleaning?

Several of you have mentioned bleach as a component of what you use to clean your sails with, but I read a number of recomendations about what to use to clean with and almost everyone said to be very careful with bleach as it breaks down the fibers in the sail. I did use some OXI but only a little compared to the amount of water in the tub. I read that you should never use regular bleach. I don't know how true any of this is, but although it bothers me some that I didn't get the sails perfectly white, it'd bother me more if had to replace my sails this year. I need them to last at least a few more seasons.

Here's the one good thing about cleaning your own sails, especially if you do it the way I did it, up close and personal so to speak. I found about half a dozen very small tears in my main and a few places where a thread was broken. The Jib was new last year, purchased before I bought the boat so I don't know anything about it other than it has a catalina insignia on it. (would that make it an ullman?) I think it's a 110 since it doesn't overlap the main very far. I'd rather have a 150 so I could have more options.

One of the tasks I was getting ready to start on was to add a sunbrella cover to it since it doesn't look like it has any protection on it. Someone told me at the beginning of the season that it had a cover on it, then another person told me later in the season that it didn't. Since then I've been reading about sunbrella vs dacron covers. But after washing it yesterday I'm confused. The leading eadge of the sail is a different material than the main body. It's much heavier and has a feel of plastic. It's not a covering though, rather its a strip that is joined to the directly to the other fabric. This material is much more stained than the rest of the sail. This strip doesn't appear to be wide enough though to protect the sail from UV damage as there is about 6-8 inches of discolored fabric into the main body. Does anybody know what I've got here? This new Jib looks like it might have been stored folded for quite some time because there are creases in it that have not come out even though it was on a roller all season. The leading heavier fabric is not handling those folds very well and I suspect that when this sail breaks it will break along those creases in that section. Maybe adding the sunbrella will reinforce it.

I'm feeling better today, still sore, but not as bad as I feared. And it's it's nice waking up knowing that I've accomplished one of the many tasks on my list. On to the next thing! :)

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 07:47:21

Karen,
I've also got a tall rig too. I sent my main to Sail Care last winter for a cleaning and various repairs. The cleaning alone was $0.95/sq ft or $122.55. They will also check over all of the stitching, and call you regarding any recommended repairs and give you an estimate before they begin repairs. For example, replacing tattered/missing telltales along the leech was an extra $20. Repairs are charged by the hour and last year their labor rate was $44/hr.
Do you have roller furling or hank-on headsails? I have a hank-on headsail cover that I really enjoy, bought on Ebay for $42 plus postage. One of the most useful items on the boat! Matches the mainsail cover. If you need a mainsail cover, expect to spend around $150-180.

I use the jib cover primarily with a light-air 150 genoa, so if you decide to buy one, get one big enough for a genoa even if you don't have one now. After returning to the dock, we flake the genoa on the deck and s-fold it up to the forestay, lay the sheets on top of the sail and stuff it into the bag. It then zips around the front of the forestay completely covering the sail and sheets. The jib halyard attaches to a D-ring at the back of the bag so it can be lifted off the deck. It definitely shortens sail handling time, because the sail is always hanked on and ready to hoist.

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/07/2012 08:10:20

OLarryR
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3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 08:54:32

This past fall, I had my sails cleaned at Quantum. I believe it cost approximately $80 for each of my Quantum sails (Main and 150 Genoa). My UV strip on the Genoa had a small rip suffered from a nasty storm end of the summer and the strip was also significantly discolored which shows up significantly since it is a white dacron strip. The contamination was a mix of rain contamination docking in an urban environment and being across from Natl Reagon Airport doesn't help that situation. So, I decided to have the strip removed and replaced with a Sunbrella strip. Between the cleaning and the strip replacement...pretty expensive. However, my main sheet cover is made of Sunbrella and does not show the rain contamination or UV, etc damage and it is about 5-6 years old. So, I am hoping same will hold for the new UV Strip on my Genoa.

My thought is that it is not often I would have my sails cleaned and it is a good opportunity for the sailmaker to give them both a once over and offer an assessment of their condition and recommend any repairs that may be warranted.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 10:44:43

I think the cleaning and re-resining of our main, plus new tell tails and some very minor repairs came to around $230 or so from Sailcare. We've also got a tall rig. I think the quote I've gotten from them for our 110 is a bit more than half that. If you're going to do it next year, wait for their fall sale to get 15% off the cleaning (but not anything else as I discovered this year).

I thought they did a pretty good job on our main, while it doesn't look "new", it's certainly cleaner, and has better shape from the resin process.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 15:03:32

We had our main and 110Jib cleaned in Fort Lauderdale a couple of months ago. The leach tensioning lines had snapped. They did a good job cleaning the sails and repaired the leach lines. Total was $215.90, but of course we delivered them and picked them up.

www.secondwindsails.com

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 21:56:05

You mentioned the warnings about not using bleach and I heard about them too.
When I bleached the sails, it was very dilute (a 1/2 cup in a 3 gallon bucket).
I scrubbed the sail using a soft-bristle broom.
Then, directly after the soap and bleach, I rinsed the sail with the hose sprayer for about 20-30 minutes. I used the broom to squeeze the water out of the sail.

When North Sails cleaned my sails, I wonder whether they used a power washer? I wouldn't, since that can be very rough on the fabric. It's also possible they did not rinse any bleaching agents out of the sails. That could have caused it to fray.

Edit - forgot to mention, I paid $ 250 or so for a cleaning and restitching parts of the jib.

Edited by - Voyager on 01/07/2012 21:58:18

waterbaby
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Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 05:45:36

Thanks for the info. Seems like it's averaging around $200. Ouch. Maybe I'll need to rethink my 'Never Again' attitude, although it's likely going to be a necessary expense periodically when repairs are needed. Once my sails were dry they looked a lot better than I thought they would. I think I just need to invest in some equipment to handle them with. I'm thinking a nice 15 ft trough and a pully system attached to the roofline of my house. (Ok now I know I'm being silly, you can laugh if you want to)

I found a product called CS-530 Mildew Stain Remover on the web yesterday and sent a message to the company asking them where I could get it since they only sell it commercially. Here's the url:

http://www.sailcleaner.com/frameset.html

I don't know how expensive it will be or if it will work any better than other things that you guys have tried but thought it was worth a look. I'll let you know what I find out.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 15:37:36

Maybe invest in a shallow kiddie pool, say 6' dia. and 2' height. For rinsing hoist sail after cleaning using a clothes line.

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/08/2012 18:09:05

JimGo
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Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 12:02:14

One important point is that the $200'ish price includes re-resoning of the sails when it's done by SailCare. I'm inclined to wash mine by hand this season (our first with the boat) to go over them carefully and better undersand any "issues" with the sails. But, when you factor in the resining, the $200 isn't quite so bad. Not something I'd be inclined to do too often, but not bad.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 13:27:19

I clean both sails every fall and it seems pretty easy to me. I use a mixture of detergent, Simple Green and bleach. All done on a tarp on the deck. Takes about 15 minutes of scrubbing with a soft deck brush, plenty of rinsing and then we hang it to dry. Comes out very clean. We do have the advantage of an awning frame over the deck to suspend the sail for drying.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 06:17:10

I've cleaned both my 110 jib and my mainsail at home, just like Nauti.

Then in each case I hung the sail up on our 2 long (50') clothes lines by the head at one end and the tack and clew next to each other on the 2 lines, hosed it off on both sides with a lot of water, and let it dry overnight.

I didn't carry the wet sail around the yard but rolled it up and put it in our wheelbarrel to get it to the clothes lines.

Edited by - on

waterbaby
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Response Posted - 01/12/2012 : 19:00:36

Jim, I definately agree the price including resoning is fair. I'm not sure how often that needs to be done, or how you know when you need it though. Any tips?

Nauti, I didn't understand why people would use simple green, but now I do. I think one thing I learned from all of this is that it should be done on a warm day. Definately not a winter task. You're approach makes sense to me. I'll keep it in mind next time.

John, I don't have a clothes line or a wheelbarrow. Definately these items would have made it easier. If I try this again I will definately plan a better way of drying the sails ahead of time. My version of drying my sails entailed stringing a line between my front porch and some trees in my yard and draping the sails over them. It worked, but I sure wouldn't have wanted any of you guys to see it... It was pretty pitiful...

Edited by - on

JimGo
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Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 14:18:10

I've had my boat for only a few weeks more than you've "had" yours. I honestly couldn't say!

I'm sure some of the others will chime in. My guess (and again, it's just a guess) is that, if you're a cruiser, every 4 or 5 years would probably be sufficient, and even that may be over-kill. Cleaning is a separate matter - of course that should be done regularly.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/13/2012 : 15:18:48

Cleaning and/or reconditioning of sails will be a function of how much they get used. I sent the main and drifter genoa to Sail Care when we bought the boat 5 years ago and sent the main again last winter, largely for cleaning/reconditioning, but for repairs, too. Although under a sail cover, it is the one sail that stays outside the boat full-time and tends to get messed up faster. Perhaps I was misleading above when I wrote "cleaning alone". The $0.95/sq ft price ($122.55 for the TR main) includes cleaning and the re-resining process.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 01/14/2012 : 14:17:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by waterbaby
 Jim, I definately agree the price including resoning is fair. I'm not sure how often that needs to be done, or how you know when you need it though. Any tips?

Nauti, I didn't understand why people would use simple green, but now I do. I think one thing I learned from all of this is that it should be done on a warm day. Definately not a winter task. You're approach makes sense to me. I'll keep it in mind next time.

John, I don't have a clothes line or a wheelbarrow. Definately these items would have made it easier. If I try this again I will definately plan a better way of drying the sails ahead of time. My version of drying my sails entailed stringing a line between my front porch and some trees in my yard and draping the sails over them. It worked, but I sure wouldn't have wanted any of you guys to see it... It was pretty pitiful...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Simple Green is a good cleaning product that is not overly harsh and works well on natural stains. My biggest suggestion is to do the work on a warm sunny day and have the rope/structure you want to hang the sail from over the area you are using to wash the sail. That way there is no lifting the whole sail and moving it around. You simply put a short bungy or rope on the clew, tack, head etc and lift those to the hanging line one at a time. Actually two hanging lines about 6 feet apart would be ideal because it spreads the sail out which helps for rinsing and drying.

Here is a thread with photos of how I wash and dry the sail. Note I get it pretty dry outside and then hang it inside.

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24145&SearchTerms=clean"]Sail Washing[/url]

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/14/2012 14:19:02

Sam Plummer
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 12:16:29

For quick simple cleaning----Sailwash from Wash-safe.com. Sailwash did a good job on dirt and mold--not so good on mud dauber stains.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 15:51:18

Last week some guys set up an inflatable kiddie pool at the marina to wash sails. sounded like a good idea, much better than the bathtub inside.

Edited by - on

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