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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Furler line jammed

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hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/07/2012 : 05:40:20

Yesterday we went sailing and the winds were 10 to 14 with some gust a little higher. I unfurled the foresail about 80 %. (It is a 150) When we were done I could not wind it back up. I think the line was jammed in the furler. I had to go to the bow and roll it up by hand and the line was a mess when I finished. It is a Harken furler. Is there any way to keep this from happening? The next nice day and no wind I will unfurl it to try to see what is happening.

1988 WK/SR w/inboard diesel Joe Pool Lake
Hobie 18 Lake Worth

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You will not get another chance.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 08:25:29

I had a similar occurrence involving my CDI furler a few years ago. Although, it is a different furler than yours, minimizing this from happen may be the same. Basically, when I leave the marina and begin to unfurl my genoa, I will maintain just a slight tension on the furling line as I pull on the genoa sheet. As I unfurl, I will generally momentarily pull in the furling line perhaps 2 feet and then unfurl again maintaining slight tension on the furling line until genoa is fully out. This is a fairly quick unfurl just that I can usually see how the furling line is winding up on the drum and if, as what happens sometimes, the windings seem to have some slack windings (those are the ones that cause the jam), I pull on the furling line and unravel those windings and then unfurl once again. This is a normal habit of mine just like putting on my inflatable PFD. I do not even think about it. Never had another jam again.

I guess this really does not have to be mentioned as it is common knowledge, but with increased wind and/or gusty conditions, furling a sail just becomes a bit harder to accomplish and can feel like it is jammed when you are working against a lot of tension. The forestay/furler may under heavy wind conditions not be quite as taut and that also hampers pulling the furling line off the drum. In heavy wind/gusty conditions, heading into the wind or easing up significantly on the sheets may be necessary until the sail is furled sufficiently.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/07/2012 08:36:14

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 08:26:21

I've read from others who have a furler that maintaining some tension on the furling line as you unfurl the sail will help prevent jamming, so I suspect that you would also keep some tension on the line as you cleat it if you unfurl only a portion of the sail.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 18:59:17

Howard,

I have a Harkin furler and mine is very sensitive to the furling line leading straight (90 degrees) into the drum. If it feeds in at an angle it will get tangled and be hard to roll up.

It is absolutely crucial that you keep tension on the furling line as you roll out the sail as the others have stated above.

Also, if the wind is up the furler rolls up easier if you tighten the backstay and get the forestay hard.

Whatever you do don't try to use a winch on the furling line!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 21:04:14

When you're sailing in gusty conditions with a partially furled sail, there could be a substantial amount of tension on the furling line and if there were any slack within the drum, it could easily become bound up.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 21:35:04

It's wise to wear at least one sailing glove for unfurling so you can put some "drag" on the furling line without putting a burn on your hand. If the line isn't pretty tightly wound on the drum, when you pull it to furl, it gets pulled in toward the drum and caught inside itself. The lead angle is indeed important for an even wrap--preventing it from bunching up toward the top or bottom of the drum. It should be as close as possible to perpendicular to the forestay, entering the drum at the midpoint of the opening. I adjusted mine with a small block clamped to a bow pulpit stanchion so it could be moved up or down the stanchion.

The size (diameter) of the furling line can also be an issue, especially with a big genoa like a 150, which requires a longer line. With the sail unfurled, check the "volume" of the line on the drum--you might want to reduce the size by a 16th or so to reduce the volume.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/07/2012 21:43:12

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5372 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 21:35:42

I'd agree that anytime a line goes slack on a roller, you'll get jams. Keeping the line taut will help.
You might also want to try using some silicone spray on the line, usually available at auto parts stores and at a higher price at the boating store. Spray the portion of the line that you DO NOT TOUCH, otherwise the silicone will get on your hands and make the line slippery and difficult to handle.
You might also want to check that the jacket of the line is clean and as a slick as possible, and consider replacing your current line with one that has a harder and slicker outer jacket. Softer lines have a greater tendency to jam.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 05:59:51

Thanks all. I have not been holding any tension on the furler line as I unfurl the sail. The furler line seems slick but I will check it when I go out to clean up the mess I have now and insure the line is properly lined up . I think it is a 5/16 line. Guess I have been lucky as we have sailed with partial sail out in strong winds previously and this is the first time this happened.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 09:02:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hewebb
 I have not been holding any tension on the furler line as I unfurl the sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Start doing so and you will considerably lessen the chances of fouling the furling line

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 13:38:53

I find that if you always let a sail all of the way out and then furl to the size you want, the drum will be wound with the tension of the current wind. That way the line does not bind.

edit...and creates the best sail shape for the wind conditions.

Edited by - pastmember on 01/08/2012 13:39:58

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2012 : 14:15:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I find that if you always let a sail all of the way out and then furl to the size you want, the drum will be wound with the tension of the current wind. That way the line does not bind.

edit...and creates the best sail shape for the wind conditions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's the un-restrained wrapping of the furler line around the drum that causes the binding. It won't bind until you start pulling it in but, the damage is done when you let the sail out. That's why it's important to keep some tension on the furling line while pulling on the sheets.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/08/2012 14:21:14

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2012 : 04:42:11

Micro-details of keeping slight tension on the furling line as you pull the genoa/jib sheet out involves sensing when the line is likely to have some slack wraps around the drum and if you can see the drum as the line wraps around the drum, so much the better for seeing the loose wraps that may jam later when furling the sail. What happens, sometimes, is that while maintaining slight tension on the furling line as you unfurl the sail by pulling on the sheet, is that at some point, the wind usually catches the sail and aids in it unfurling. When that happens, momentarily, it may catch you somewhat offguard and the furling line wraps quickly for a few turns around the drum before you then regain adding slight tension. Those wraps around the drum that happen quickly when the sail catches the wind are likely to be very loose, so it is best to then furl the sail by pulling on the furling line for a couple of feet to undo those last few wraps and then return to unfurling and keeping slight tension on the furling line.

What I also find, is that as my line wraps around the drum, it seems to wrap it around at the top of the drum, then if any slack occurs, the last few wraps fall down lower on the drum and they also could cause a jam later on. It is desirable that the line wrap around evenly along the whole drum. So, if I see the line mainly wrapping around the top of the drum, I will purposely let the furling line go slack for a second and then when the wraps fall down lower on the drum, I pull on the furling line a couple of feet and then continue with unfurling again.

All this care to keep the line from forming loose wraps on the drum sounds very involved but it really isn't. It becomes a habit and not a big deal. In most instances no jam would occur anyway. Just a few precautions to be aware of and taking the small steps to minimize jams really pays off and should result in practially no future jams to occur. I can only recall have a 2-3 jams total in the first year or two (sailing at 50+ times in each of those years) I owned the boat and then taking these small inconsequential steps to minimize jams, I have not had one in years.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/09/2012 04:47:20

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2012 : 09:26:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 ...It is desirable that the line wrap around evenly along the whole drum. So, if I see the line mainly wrapping around the top of the drum, I will purposely let the furling line go slack for a second and then when the wraps fall down lower on the drum, I pull on the furling line a couple of feet and then continue with unfurling again...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Larry: That "bunching" at the top is probably due to the lead angle from the last block or fairlead--what I mentioned above. Try changing the block position to lower the lead angle--too far and it will bunch up around the bottom--just right and it should wrap evenly (with a little tension).

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2012 : 12:07:07

I have fooled around relocating that block. Even tried adding a block. But just did not quite get what was desired.

I may try again, otherwise, I have no real issues with how I go about furling and unfurling.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2012 : 21:08:15

Larry,

On my boat the sweet spot for the last block was exactly where the front port cleat was mounted so I bought one of these (http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Rigging-Supplies-Hardware/Screw-Pin-Bow-Shackles-Stainless-Steel) and mount it to the cleat just before I head out. I remove it when I get back so I can properly attach my dock lines.

I bought mine at WM and I don't remember what size it was but it works great and so far there is no wear on the furler line.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2012 : 21:44:32

Gary,

You are probably right about attaching a shackle to the cleat as being the sweet spot for the line wrapping properly on the drum.
Between you and Dave, maybe I'll take another look if tweaking it a bit makes an improvement. No harm in trying. I like using that cleat when dockside...so I'll have to give this some thinkin. Here's a photo that shows where my line wraps. Also shows the line relative to where the cleat is located.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 15:56:09

it would appear the pulpit has a perfect place for a block to be attached?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 17:00:08

The pulpit up close to the drum, the line tends to wrap around the drum mostly in the area closest to the block and not along the full drum. When the block is located a little further away from the drum, then the line will wrap along the entire drum as long as the block can be fastened very low, close to the deck. That's why Gary indicated fastening a block to the cleat works.

Next time I am onboard, I am going to look it over again and see if I can lower the block which I think I have connected to the aft end of the pulpit. It works from there as is but as mentioned in the other postings, one needs to just be a bit observant of any loose wraps.

So, what do others do ? Where is your block mounted and what furling system ?

Edited by - on

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