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Autopilot

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hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/09/2012 : 06:12:52

I am thinking of adding an autopilot to the boat so I can safely sail without a crew. I do not need an GPS interface just a heading hold. Its primary function will be to hold a heading while I am handling the sails. What do you guys recommend?

1988 WK/SR w/inboard diesel Joe Pool Lake
Hobie 18 Lake Worth

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You will not get another chance.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 06:21:11

I had this same question. I've seen both the Simrad and the Raymarine mentioned. But, I have no idea which one to go with and why.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 07:43:48

Technology between Simrad and Raymarine is about the same. Price is not - Raymarine is generally more expensive. I have a Simrad TP 10 and wish I had gotten the next boat size up - the TP 20. My TP 10 has been pretty reliable having failed only once in 8 years. it is underpowered in some conditions though.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:16:04

Can you elaborate on it being over powered? Were you caught in high winds or something? Did the arm not correct fast enough? If that were the case, then I probably wouldn't be using it anyways.
Mounting location on the tiller could also have an effect as it would need more power if it was closer to the stern.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 02/09/2012 08:17:30

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:32:11

I have a Simrad TP22. You can interface it with the GPS but you do not need to. You would only need to interface it if you want the autopilot to steer a course. It will keep a heading without the GPS. I've had mine several years, but IIRC, I chose the Simrad over Raymarine because of reported reliability issues, at least back then.

I also added the remote control, which is nice if you want to sit at the bow and be able to make changes in course without going back to the cockpit.

Edited by - Davy J on 02/09/2012 08:32:52

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:34:09

An autohelm is "nice" to have, but not necessary to "safely" single hand. I single hand all the time...in fact, I've only had crew/pax aboard maybe 5 times. I single hand every time I go out.

The key is in preparation. I rig everything at the dock before I leave. When it's time to hoist sail, all I have to do is turn into the wind and quickly untie the couple sail ties. Back in the cockpit, readjust heading and hoist away, tiller between my legs. My main goes all the way up, no winching. The jib needs winching the last foot.

Dropping the sails is even easier: Turn into the wind, let the mainsheet go. Drop the jib, bundle it with 1 tie, back to the cabin to drop the main, bundle it with a couple ties then go back and secure the jib.

Sometimes I'll put everything away out on the lake, but usually wait until I'm back in the slip since I drop sail just outside the marina.

I would be happy to have you come out with me and I'll coach you through it all....but it's gonna be a month or so before I'm sailing again...got a new motor in the works and my interior is beginning the be a shambles. Brightwork is my spring project, want to be done by early March.

I have, however, been considering an autohelm just for those lazy days I'm only making 2 kts and I'm on the same tack for an hour. I would buy:

[url="http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?SITE=1&SECTION=2&PAGE=87&PRODUCT=193"]Raymarine ST1000 Tiller Pilot[/url]

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:02:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 I also added the remote control, which is nice if you want to sit at the bow and be able to make changes in course without going back to the cockpit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, that sounds incredibly awesome. Now I'm definitely going to focus on making that my next upgrade.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:41:41

I've had my Raymarine ST1000+ autopilot for ten years now and it's be in the shop twice for repairs, once under warranty and the other on my dime. If it were to give up the ghost, I'd probably go with the one of the Simrad units. I too, have the remote for it, but I've only played with it a couple of times over the years. For me, the autopilot comes in handy when raising sails and when rigging/deploying the spinnaker while singlehanding. It's also not unusual for me to sail directly out of my marina and be on the same tack for 4-6 hours 15-20 miles offshore, then tack once and sail back for another 4-6 hours. Having a couple of hours during the sail to relax away from the helm is absolutely wonderful as I can read a book, sit up on the bow, or do whatever. I've even...wait for it..."catnapped" while under sail although I only do this out in open water many miles from shipping channels, land, etc. A kitchen timer set for 5 or so minutes makes sure I don't pass out for a couple of hours then end up in Cleveland. This I learned from a GLSS safety seminar.

Here's some videos of my autopilot...

[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4536671289105007193"]Autopilot 1[/url]

[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4536671289105007193#docid=-4057230084458630944"]Autopilot 2[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 10:35:16

That's awfully risky, possibly ending up in Cleveland.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 11:42:28

Good advice to get the next size up. Reasons: two things happen when you do so - there is additional strength in the larger motor and the hardover time is appreciably shorter, means it acts faster. Check the specs and compare.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 12:08:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 Good advice to get the next size up. Reasons: two things happen when you do so - there is additional strength in the larger motor and the hardover time is appreciably shorter, means it acts faster. Check the specs and compare.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's not what's stated in the Simrad manual. They both have a reaction time of 6.9 seconds at 0kg's. Neither is faster than the other. The TP10 has 143lbs thrust, and the TP22 has 154lbs. Doesn't seem like a lot of thrust difference to justify the $100 "upgrade".

Edited by - NautiC25 on 02/09/2012 12:13:06

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 12:29:55

The lock to lock helm speed Stu's probably referring to is between the ST1000 (8 seconds) and ST2000 (4.5 seconds). The ST1000 has a lead screw and nut drive whereas the ST2000 has a recirculating ball drive.

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 12:49:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 ..... and when rigging/deploying the spinnaker while singlehanding. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow....handling a chute all by yourself? That's impressive.....

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 It's also not unusual for me to sail directly out of my marina and be on the same tack for 4-6 hours 15-20 miles offshore, then tack once and sail back for another 4-6 hours. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I so wish I could do that! I'd be in sailing heaven if I had that much open space.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 12:49:51

Oh, ok.

I found the TP10 for $321.
ST1000 for $369
ST2000 for $469.

The TP10 still seems like the best deal for the money.

Wow, I can't believe the remote is another $400.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 13:41:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 ..... and when rigging/deploying the spinnaker while singlehanding. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow....handling a chute all by yourself? That's impressive.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't be impressed, because although I do have a symmetrical spinnaker, I only fly my pole less asymmetrical (cruising) spinnaker, which also has a chutescoop, as it make things easier for a singlehander. I'm impressed by those singlehanders flying symmetricals with poles.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 18:13:02

I'm only in my first year of sailing....well, about now entering my second year....I've never flown a spinnaker myself, and every time I've seen it done has been on racing J24's with a crew...usually 2 or 3 hourglasses out of the 12 or so boats.

So anyone who flies a chute by themselves impresses me. I'm not even rigged for one, but I'd like to try....

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2012 : 19:18:31

Everything I've read on several forums suggests to go up one size on autopilots. From what I've read the reliability is better. Not sure why.

Simrad units seem to hold up better. Once guy on another forum bought the Raymarine TP1000 and had nothing but problems using it on his C22. It was in the shop 2 or 3 times the first year with stripped out gears and/or electronic issues. He finally convinced them to upgrade him to the TP2000 and he never had another problem.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 04:43:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Wow, I can't believe the remote is another $400.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Make sure you are looking at the right item. I just looked at Simrad's site and they claim that the HR22 remote has been discontinued.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 06:32:47

I do not have a topping lift nor a rigid boom vang so I have to raise the main then go up and remove the boom from the pig tail on the rear stay. That takes me a little while and the boat will begin to turn as soon as I leave the tiller. I haven't tried it yet with the bimini out of the way. I haven't tried some way of locking the tiller yet to see how well that would work. I want to get a handle on this before I go out solo. I usually sail on week days so finding someone to go along is not always easy.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 06:39:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hewebb
 I do not have a topping lift nor a rigid boom vang so I have to raise the main then go up and remove the boom from the pig tail on the rear stay. That takes me a little while and the boat will begin to turn as soon as I leave the tiller.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do yourself a HUGE favor and remove the pigtail from the equation by installing a topping lift. After you've done this, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner and it'll make singlehanding that much easier. You may discover your need for an autopilot might diminish significantly.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 07:32:03

I have both. I normally keep the boom on the pigtail because it keeps the boom higher up than the topping lift, giving me more headroom in the cockpit in the slip or on the hook. Moving it to the topping lift is part of my rigging procedure before I leave the dock.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 07:47:48

If I install a topping lift is it to be long enough to ? I was thinking it would have to be long enough to let me tighten the sail with the vang. To long and the boom may hit the bimini. I only have about an inch of clearance with the sail up between the boom and bimini. Do you disconnect the topping lift while under sail? If yes, what is the advantage. Maybe I am over thinking this.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 10:03:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hewebb
 If I install a topping lift is it to be long enough to ? I was thinking it would have to be long enough to let me tighten the sail with the vang. To long and the boom may hit the bimini. I only have about an inch of clearance with the sail up between the boom and bimini. Do you disconnect the topping lift while under sail? If yes, what is the advantage. Maybe I am over thinking this.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I also have a bimini with minimal boom clearance and this is what I do. When getting ready to drop the main, I harden the mainsheet then haul in the topping lift tight. Now when I drop the main, the boom will go no lower than it was before because of the topping lift. When raising the main, I first put a little slack in the mainsheet, raise the main, then fully slacken the topping lift.

To make things easier for myself, my topping lift is led to the cabintop and if I want to lift the boom higher, I just haul the topping lift in some.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 10:28:42

I do not have a bimini.

My topping lift is always attached. When I am dockside, I have the boom attached to the pigtail. Just before I leave the slip, I detach the boom from the pigtail and pull in my mainsheet so the boom has limited swing. The topping lift basically keeps the boom horizontal/parallel to the hull/water. When I take down my main sail and secure it and ready to motor into the marina, I reattach the boom to the pigtail.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 10:40:21

Terminate the topping lift a foot or so above standard boom height with a micro or mini block and add a micro-fiddle with V-jam to clip to the boom; reeve 1/4" line between the blocks to make it adjustable. I can take a photo later if that isn't clear.
edit: The alternative is a block at the masthead and run the topping over it and down the mast to terminate at the mast foot or cockpit.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 02/10/2012 10:44:08

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2012 : 15:21:27

I added a photo to the album in the Pearl's Rudder thread. It's kind of fuzzy because I forgot to take a camera, and the phone had a little trouble with focusing that close.

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