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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

radar reflector

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blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/11/2012 : 21:31:48

do any of you has one of those installed??

a radar reflector is mandatory on all canadian fiberglass boats, either the one above that's permanently attached on you upper shrouds above the spreader (some people even put one on each side) or the ball shaped panels assembly that can be raised when needed only

do you have any of those? i bought the tube one (it was half-price at the marine store), i figured, meh, why not, i'll just put it there and forget about it but once at the marina i noticed very few ships have those (and most of the ships there are 40' and over...)

i know there was some debate about their efficiency (i France they are no longer mandatory...) but i'm having second thoughts... i kinda like a sleek mast and rigging...

1984 C25 FK/SR #4593
Lake Champlain

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 03:35:54

I have the ball shaped panel one. The PO had it and so I did not have to buy one. I have never used it and I rarely anchor overnight. I tend to stay overnight at marinas or town docks. I guess even with river sailing one could be used considering there are commercial touring boats that you mostly come across but they usually do not have night-time runs, maybe one run just after sundown. I wonder what percentage of those on the forum actually use their radar reflectors. If you are in an area with a lot or even an occasional commercial vessel where you could come into harm's way, I guess there are those that do indeed use them. I see the merits of having one permanently attached to the upper shrouds. You would not have to give this any thought...it is always out there for your protection. Since radar reflectors are mandatory in canadian waters, I wonder if there are any govt approvals reqd for the radar reflectors so that you know if whatever you purchase meets minimum specs or is at least approved for adequate protection. Just never looked into it before but your posting gets me thinking that way if I had to make a decision which one to get. Also, considering the permanent one attached to the shrouds...I would wonder if it is at all effected by the weather elements - How would you know if it at sometime in years from now lose it's effectiveness...perhaps if the plastic enclosure were to become hazy ? Maybe they effective even after many years even if the outside shell does deteriorate to some degree ?

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/12/2012 03:40:21

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 03:43:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blanik
 a radar reflector is mandatory on all canadian fiberglass boats, either the one above that's permanently attached on you upper shrouds above the spreader (some people even put one on each side) or the ball shaped panels assembly that can be raised when needed only

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

blanik - I wasn't aware of this as a regulation - is that in CCG regs, or elsewhere? I guess I need to do some reading!

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blanik
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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 05:59:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
blanik - I wasn't aware of this as a regulation - is that in CCG regs, or elsewhere? I guess I need to do some reading!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

it becomes mandatory when radar conditions prevail, if you day sail in good weather it's not mandatory (the CG won't fine you upon inspection in good weather)

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-equipment-operational-menu-841.htm

Edited by - blanik on 03/12/2012 06:00:01

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 06:26:50

Wow - thanks for bringing that to my attention. On Lk Simcoe it was never an issue, but on Lk Ontario we were planning on getting one, I just didn't realize it was in the regs.

In my favourite boat projects book ("The Finely Fitted Yacht") there are instructions to build a radar reflector yourself out of aluminium flashing. It is the ball type. Next rainy day, I'll set to work building one.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 08:58:34

We sail on Puget Sound with lots of commercial traffic. I researched radar reflectors and decided a Luneberg Lens type was best for us. We bought a Tri-Lens as we thought it was the best solution for our situation. Here is [url="http://www.tri-lens.com/practical_sailor.txt"]some of the research. [/url]

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 10:02:11

P/S tested tested passive reflectors a few years back and found the cheap Davis unit to be as effective as all others and better than most. Passive reflectors have critical angles that reflect the signal directly back to its source, they are otherwise pretty simple. You can make them more expensive, but surface area of the metal or metal foil coating is the primary factor in determining your radar signature.

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glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 11:06:22

I have used the tube type for many years now. So long that the tube has lost a bit of its transparency. It goes up at the start of the season is there 24/7. I also have the ball type. Have seldom assembled and flown that one, but if I get caught in the soup, I want as much of a radar signature as possible _/) Glen

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 13:55:16

I agree Glen, bigger is definitely better in this situation and a crazed plastic tube is just as invisible to RF as a clear one. I guess the benefit of a sealed unit is putting it up and forgetting it. I rarely need to sail in fog and am happy with the Davis unit.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 13:56:54

I have the ball type and only use it when traveling to Catalina Island at night. Other then that my eyesight hasn't got that bad (yet). Ship traffic where I sail is not much of an issue but the major north/south shipping channel is between me and Catalina when I make that trip. I plan my trip so I cross the channel in daylight hours. If fog were to set in I would raise the buoy.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 20:57:09

The clarity of the plastic tube should not make any difference in the reflectivity of the unit. You're shooting a radar beam as far as 24 miles, maybe farther, through dust, dirt, pollen, and/or rain filled air. After traveling that kind of distance a piece of 1/4" thick hazed/crazed plastic tubing isn't going to make a darn bit of difference. If it was that sensitive the unit would be ineffective within a few days of installation due to dust and dirt sticking to the tube at night when dew forms on the plastic.

As others have said above, the size and shape of the actual reflective material is what's going to make the difference.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2012 : 23:38:24

David;

I've been thinking about getting one of Rozendal's Tri-Lens units, but I've been concerned about windage and weight aloft if I mount it on top of the truck, or chafing the leach of my genoa every time I tack if I fasten the mounting bracket to the front of the mast. How have you mounted yours, and how's it been working out for you? Oh, and which model did you install? Thanks.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2012 : 08:17:25

Lee,
I mounted mine about 3' above the spreaders after consulting with the manufacturer. He told me that it wasn't necessary to mount it at the top of the mast as I'd originally intended. I bought the medium sized one and mounted it by pop riveting it to the mast. It took a bit of doing to bend the bracket to fit the mast, but I finally got a good fit. I'm pretty sure I wrote up a post with pictures about it. I'll look later when I'm not typing on a tiny keyboard.

Here's [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/pop_printer_friendly.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=14998"]my original thread when doing research[/url]. Still looking for the install post.

Here's more [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/pop_printer_friendly.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15159"]information[/url]. No idea if the deal with Downwind Marine still stands.

Edited by - delliottg on 03/13/2012 08:48:47

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2012 : 18:43:33

I think they are all pretty much the same until the boat heels. When held at an angle the tri-lens (http://www.tri-lens.com/trilensweb12002001.htm) is the only one that does any good.

G. Jackson

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2012 : 18:57:48

Intersecting surfaces held at precise 90º angles reflect the signal directly back to its source regardless of the incident angle. Heeling is only a factor in height.

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