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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel repair anxiety

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Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2012 : 07:37:33

I am starting to get stressed over this! Have made appt. with the hoist at the marina for the week of April 30. Plan on replacing the pivot assembly and the lifting hardware (buying from CD).
The PO stated he never lowered the keel.
Our boat hasn't been in the water for several years.
This is just maintenance--there is no known problem.
Also will be faring, expoxying, barrier coating, and painting the keel.
We, pretty much, have no idea what we are doing.
The only knowledge is from these forums, of which we are so very thankful.
There is a video available from CD entitled "Keel Refinishing Video" it's on a 22' though. Should we buy it?
Anybody got pictures of the contraption they made for holding/lowering the keel?
I know I have read several threads on this subject in the past. My mind is so boggled as to the upcoming task, I really don't know where to start.
I'm sure it won't be that scary once we get into it, but just knowing we've got 5 days to get all this done has me worried.
Anyone have advice or references?
We've got a month to get our sh#@ together.
Thank you,
Anna

Charley & Anna Louiso
Chakana 1984 C25 SR/SK #4192
Louisville, KY

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 08:38:24

My Brother Greg usta always say....

"Aint't nothin to it but to do it."

Good Luck and good skill...

Edited by - on

cat25
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 08:39:24

The video is very good. I did the keel on my cat 22. Followed instructions to lower keel out of boat . The jacking info was on the money. I also used the rust eliminating paint they prescribed. Then put about five coats of west epoiex on the keel. I bottom painted inside the keel cavityalso. Like I sail the video was great.for a cat 25. Good luck Ken 1990 cat 25

Edited by - on

Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 10:27:31

Want to sell your video?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:08:05

Made braces out of 2x4s (triangle style) to keep keel upright. Used hydraulic car jack (dolly style) to lower/raise front end of keel. Safety first - this ain't no C22 keel!

Assume you are resting hull on jack stands?

Does the marina have sandblasting equipment? Might be well worth the investment. Remember, metal starts to oxidize the moment it is exposed to air.

Macht schnell!

Edited by - OJ on 03/27/2012 11:14:13

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:12:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 My Brother Greg usta always say....

"Aint't nothin to it but to do it."

Good Luck and good skill...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My brother Bill usta say "If it ain't broke - you're not trying."

Edited by - on

Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:21:10

Want to sell your video?

Edited by - on

Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:34:51

I don't remember posting that twice. I sound persistent don't I!!!

Edited by - on

Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 11:39:15

No the boat is going to be up in the hoist (cradle straps). We don't have any jack stands. I just assumed this is how we would do it--lift it off the trailer every day. Is this dangerous? Should we get some jack stands too?
No we don't have sandblasting equipment. I haven't even gotten that far as to figure out how we'll fair the keel. It's really not in very bad shape, but there are a few areas of rust.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 12:38:21

There are a lot of threads of members removing the swing keels. The removing will be easy until something sticks. You need the cradle to set the keel into as it is very dangerous for falling over , 1500 lbs. No handles except a one inch hole after the pin is removed and bolt and shackle to lift from. I have removed my keel three times over the years for maintenance so I hope this helps. The keel needs to be lowered while on the trailer, first with the keel cable end on to the cradle made of 2 x 4s. The cradle needs to be built long enough to support the keel near both ends with a brace on each side to prevent the keel from flopping. Got to go now more latter.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 12:43:44

The big issue is for the keel to NOT fall over. Your comment about lifting the boat off sounds like a disaster in the making. I like this way of borrowing a fin keel trailer and lowering it into a brace.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 13:27:01

Hanging in slings sounds dicey to me. Boats swing in travel-lifts, fore-and-aft, and side-to-side. All it takes is a little push or breeze. I don't think you want the boat moving even half an inch in any direction while this operation is going on.

See whether the yard has some spare stands--if they're letting you hang in the lift, they must have launched most of their customers.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/27/2012 13:37:49

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 13:37:13

One more thing... The hardware maintenance is more important that a little rust on the keel. Are you racing her? If not, and if you want to take some pressure off yourself within your time constraints, forget about fairing and finishing--the cast iron will be sufficient for longer than you will. Put some Rust Reformer on the spots, paint, and go.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/27/2012 13:39:22

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 17:03:45

Listen to Dave B. Replace the lift cable and attachment, knock the loose rust off the keel, paint with a rust binding paint, do the bottom painting and go sailing. That will give you time to arrange for jackstands, cradle, or tailer this Fall when you won't have time pressure. Sailing will help you determine if the pivot assembly needs attention and time to plan your approach. The pivot assembly can (likely to) expand into sleeving the keel for a new pivot pin. None of the work is technically difficult, but you need time to learn and do it right.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 17:37:04

Charlie!

There is anough stress involved with lowering the keel without having to deal with lifting the boat each day.

I did something very similar to what pastmember shows above. Someone else here placed jackstands under the boat while it was on the trailer - pretty slick, convenient, safe.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 18:37:35

You got more from the gang. The upgrading is more important than the rust repair. The plan to use a hoist would have to include place to put the keel as working on it under the boat is tough. Hang time on a hoist is tension as others could be next in line. Your time schedule is a back breaker. When I replaced the cable and the keel attachment it took some custom fitting. The blocks with new bolts and adjusting plastic spacers take time to install. Hope this isn't TMI but you get my concern. The idea to do what is necessary and get sailing is the payoff. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 20:00:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Replace the lift cable and attachment<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
By attachment, I mean attaching the cable to the keel, not the pivot assembly. The pivot assembly is silicon bronze - as close to bulletproof as you can get. The pin might be bent, the hole in the keel might be worn, the keel might have some play, but I wouldn't worry about it falling off. I drilled and sleeved my keel on the trailer in the driveway and added spacers instead of replacing the pivot bar receiver castings with excellent results. I posted my process but would be happy to go over it with you when you are ready.

edit: many yards rent stands

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/27/2012 20:04:58

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 06:45:09

I'm not sure I'd trust regular sailboat stands as with these, most of the boat's weight is on the keel with the stands simply providing support against tilting. This being the case, you'd need keel stands supporting the hull at the centerline fore and aft, but the ones I'm familiar with appear to be 24" or less in height. Would that be enough to work on the keel?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 07:06:20

I've seen an SK stored on stands--the keel was lowered to a block as you would on a trailer. The hull sat on blocks under the centerline fore and aft of the keel, so the stands were, as usual, not supporting most of its weight.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 08:33:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I've seen an SK stored on stands...The hull sat on blocks under the centerline fore and aft of the keel, so the stands were, as usual, not supporting most of its weight.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Exactly. Normally keel stands aren't used with sailboats, only powerboats, but in the case of a swing keel, I would think they'd be a necessity.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 11:47:17

Keel stands or lowering the keel onto a block of wood accomplish the same thing. Much of the keels weight is self supported. Holding the hull 24" above ground at its lowest point would be might be adequate to get the keel out, depending on the height of the frame, but 24" stands outboard wouldn't accomplish that. Having it lifted onto fin trailer would seem to be a nearly perfect solution.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/28/2012 11:52:23

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 12:51:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Keel stands or lowering the keel onto a block of wood accomplish the same thing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, when I was referencing a keel stand, I wasn't referring to something that supports a sailboat's keel, but rather the stand that is placed on the centerline of a vessel that supports the main weight. In the photo below, the boat is primarily resting on two keel stands.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 15:25:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 ... In the photo below, the boat is primarily resting on two keel stands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And most yards around here use wood blocks for that purpose, just as they do under a sailboat's fixed keel.

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Chakana
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 18:04:25

Thanks everyone. I'm starting to feel better.
Pastmember--pictures are worth 1000 words. Thank you so much.
Will post progress....

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 19:20:54

And if you use jack stands - don't forget about proper placement . . .

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Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2012 : 04:40:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 And if you use jack stands - don't forget about proper placement . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
and properly secured - chain together so they can't slide out

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