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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bilge ! (Pump that is)

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/06/2003 : 10:09:14

One of the items my ever-expanding "short list" is the addition of an automatic bilge pump.

Any advice is greatly appreciated on brand, sizing, location and installation 'gotchas'.

My inital thought is a 1,000 GPM+ Rule.. (haven't figured out a proper mounting location yet).

TIA...

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2003 : 12:44:01

What type of keel are we talking about ? After having a couple of Catalinas my first thought is if it does not have an inboard engine why would you need a bildge pump ? Either you have a lot of leaks or your just thinking of an emergency system. My C-25 fin keel never had more than a few cups of water in the bildge durring the year. If the boat is sitting in the water in a slip and springs a leak she will only float as long as the battery will run the pump. I think in the event of anything else happening the regular bildge pump is available. But then again when was the last time anyone checked that to see if it works.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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jncarlin
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2003 : 17:39:53

Doug-

Actually, I checked my bilge pump this summer! The bad news is that it didn't work <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot it?

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2003 : 19:16:53

Oops.. yes... swing keel... outboard only.
should put that in the sig.

Emergency bilge pumping only.
It's one of those things that I hope I'll NEVER use.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2003 : 22:40:00

If the pump is float switch activated and not working then check the float first. After taking it out of the circuit do a continuity check from one lead to the other while actuating the swich. If the switch is good do a voltage check to see if the pump is actually getting 12Volts. If the pump is getting 12 volts and not running you might try to see if some debris has entered the pump but I doubt it. R&R the pump and switch. Keep splices out of wet areas and seal them if you can.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2003 : 00:05:08

As part of the emergency bilge pump system, I would strongly recommend a bilge alarm along with wood thru hull plugs. Plastiline clay is good for temporary small leak repairs. Also underwater epoxy clay is good. In my opinion the primary purpose of the bilge system is to protect passengers first and the boat second.

The bilge alarm already saved me one day. I was just leaving the marina when it started going off. It turns out that one of bolts for the bottom gudgeon was leaking enough seawater to fill the bilge and set off the alarm. I didn't hear the bilge pump as I was motoring, but I sure heard the alarm. I stopped. Found the leak and turned back for repairs.

It gives me peace of mind while sleeping or just sailing about that if I start taking on water I want to know IMMEDIATELY. You may not hear the bilge running while motoring, radio playing, etc. If your water intake is greater than your pump capacity you may not find out before its too late. The most important thing to do if there is a leak is to find it immediately and stop it if possible, or call in a MAYDAY if not.

Bilge pumps are limited by the size of the bilge hose. If you want large capacity you need a large diameter hose along with a large capacity pump. Depending on the source of your leak any size pump can be overwhelmed (and you may not hear it running).

BTW for us swing keelers, I think a large piece of plastiline clay or the epoxy clay would work for a major failure in the cable thru hull. I read from one of our members that a piece of bread dough can also work.

<img src="http://www.comhertz.com/abacus/Pics2/BilgeAlarm.jpg" border=0>

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
<i>Abacus'</i>: http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2003 : 09:04:26

But then again when was the last time anyone checked that to see if it works.

Last spring. Part of my spring annual includes running a pail of water, setting on the cabin sole, retreiving the bilge snake hose into the pail, and pumping the pail empty.... btw, it takes 6-8 pumps and shoots water 6 ft from the thru hull. If those figures change, I'll be suspicious.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2003 : 14:19:53

I agree with Douglas concerning electric bilge pumps. Firstly, bilge pumps should only be used for emergencies and not to keep up with the flow of water coming from leaking windows, thru-deck fittings, rub rails, stanchions,...etc. Secondly, if you do have an emergency that requires pumping, the primary pump should be a manual pump with the electric as the back-up.

On smaller boats without inboard engines, the primary pump should be a manual bilge pump(operated from the cockpit) with a manually operated electric pump(w/float switch) as a backup. If you don't have a constant power source, such as an inboard with an alternator or dockside electrical hookup which can supply an electric pump with constant power, the battery can be drained by the pump rendering the pump useless. On the other hand, a manual pump will run until the crew gives up. Additionally, smaller outboard powered sailboats don't have many ways for water to get in other than a structural failure of the hull(hole), taking on water in heavy seas, or leaving the hatch open during a monsoon. At the dock, thru-hulls(sink drains, head intake) should be closed when a boat is unattended and when at sea, thru-hulls should be closed if they are not being used.

Consider this if you are planning or already have an automatic electric pump. Say, for example, you visit your boat on the weekends and you have an automatic electric bilge pump. The boat springs a leak on Monday morning and starts taking on water. Your battery powered electric bilge pump automatically starts pumping water to rid the boat of water, but without a constant power source, eventually the battery will drain and the boat will sink. Once I went to the marina to find a group of people around a boat that was taking on water, bailing with buckets to keep the boat afloat. They had come upon the boat, saw it was taking on water, and immediately went aboard to turn on the bilge pump. They discovered that the automatic electric pump was turned on, but it had already killed the battery. Since the boat didn't have a manual pump they scrounged up some bailing buckets until help arrived. If the boat had an installed manual pump, the rescuers could have used it to keep the boat from sinking until help arrived.

What if you are at sea, far from land and, let's say your keel cable breaks punching a hole in your hull and you start taking on water. If you have only an electric pump it will only operate as long as the battery holds up. When the battery dies, the pump stops and the boat starts to sink. At this point you will need to use the VHF to call for help,...Oh, but wait...the pump killed the battery and so you can't call for help. If the primary pump were a manual pump, then both the pump and radio would still be operational.

If you don't have a constant and relatively unlimited power supply to run an electric pump, then you should have a manual pump as a primary with the electric as a back-up. The secondary electric pump should also be connected to a manually operated switch to that it can be turned on/off to prevent totally draining the batteries when the float switch is activated. You may want to install a bilge alarm to warn you of any potential problem. When the alarm goes off, either pump manually or switch on the secondary electric pump. Additionally, a bilge alarm may alert others in a mooring or in a marina to a problem when you are not there and they could render assistance(manually pump until help arrives). A good idea when you leave your boat is to put your manual pump handle in the coaming compartment so in an emergency someone can jump into your cockpit to operate your manual pump.

If your boat is taking on water faster than your manual pump can get rid of, then what you need is not an electric pump, but a flare gun and life raft!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 01/09/2003 01:53:29

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