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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Hull and Keel Painting

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/19/2012 : 19:05:17

I just bought a 1984 Catalina 25 SK and it appears that it will need bottom paint this year and keel paint. I think i have a good product for the keel called Chassis Saver by Magnet Paints. This is a "Rust Converter" that I have used on car chassis with great results. It works even better on slightly rusty cast iron or steel. As for the bottom paint, I'm new to this so I'm looking for the best product for Fresh Water and also an option for Salt Water if they are different for the future.

Thanks,

Brian & JoAnne Gleissner
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 20:58:48

I don't have anything to add or advise....so why am I posting.....I'm just envious of all you guys doing bottom work....man, I wish I had a place to work on my boat out of the water. We've only got 1 yard on the lake and they won't let you do your own work....my bottom would look so good if I could just get 2 weeks with it!

Sorry....back to your thread.....

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 21:00:14

I had good success with Interlux Ultra and Ultra-Kote. Both are hard finish bottom paints. I used them on the keel also.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 08:26:00

Other than VC-17, I would never (again) use a hard paint on a boat bottom. It's masochistic. Its antifouling properties diminish, but the layers of paint build until some of it falls off (ane eventually all of it has to be removed). A few weeks out of the water kills its antifouling properties.

Ablative (co-polymer) paint tolerates months out of the water, lasts for multiple seasons until it wears away (so it doesn't build up until it falls off).

The rust converters are good as a primer on a cast iron keel--then put the bottom paint of your choosing over it.

What kind of fouling are you concerned about? Mussels? Slime and grass? How much will she live in the water vs out? Will you frequently be sliding her on and off a trailer? If you put her into salt water (more serious fouling), for how long?

There are lots of variables... Ask other sailors in your area about what they use and why. Stores selling marine paint in your area can also steer you toward what will serve you best.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 08:48:17

Is the swing keel on the 1984 still cast iron? The fin keel switched from iron to lead around then.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 09:49:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Other than VC-17, I would never (again) use a hard paint on a boat bottom. It's masochistic. Its antifouling properties diminish, but the layers of paint build until some of it falls off (ane eventually all of it has to be removed). A few weeks out of the water kills its antifouling properties.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And that is why I have a man crush on Dave.

Preach it Brother! (I am an admitted VC17 addict.)

Edited by - pastmember on 04/20/2012 09:49:42

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5897 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 09:52:44

I use WM's best house brand paint, called PCA Gold. It has served me well for about 6 years. I usually apply one coat per year, but it looks so good this year, I might skip it. It's much less expensive than the equivalent name brand paint made by either Interlux or Petit. I believe WM's paint is made for them by Petit. I think I saw an ad saying it's current price is around $130. a gal, and there might be a rebate.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 09:53:08

Dave - She'll be in for about 5-6 months (May-October). On the lake it will be mostly slime to deal with. I will not be trailering it at all except in the Spring and the Fall. I just ordered a few quarts of the Chassis Saver. Spoke to Magnet Paints and they said there would be no problem under water but I would need to topcoat with a marine grade paint.

Alex - The keel is definitely Iron. The previous owner said it took him a while to drill through is for the Zincs he installed. Anyway, he sain the bottom paint held up for 3 seasons (Power washed each year) but the keel is pretty rusty. I'll have to check with him to see what botton paint he used.

Thanks for the feedback,

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 10:08:36

Lake? Slime? VC 17.

We are used to seeing details about a boat and venue in sigs, it would help us help you. I suggest you research VC 17 on the forum. We lake sailors in Kansas use it a lot because we work on our own boats and it makes bottom painting a 1-2 hour event with no need for protective clothing or worrying about environmental things. It never builds up, drys in minutes and makes your boat faster. Remember the marina advise is self serving if any good at all. The best advice comes from people who do it themselves... and do it well.

So where is this lake and what ability do you have to work on your boat?

Edited by - pastmember on 04/20/2012 10:09:32

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 11:34:56

I also use WM's PCA Gold (which I believe is re-branded Pettit's Ultima SR-40 with 40% copper and Pettit's Irgarol anti-slime additive). It has done the job for me, but I won't push it for your needs--I just don't know.

With all due respect to Frank (who always does it right), a little issue with VC-17 is that (I believe) it can't be applied over any other bottom paint--you'd have to strip her bare. If you do, then the gold standard would be an epoxy barrier coat (multiple coats) before the paint. The barrier coat protects against blistering, which is a more common problem in fresh water than in salt. That's a big topic...

You definitely should find out what's on there before picking something to put on top of it, and then check the manufacturers' sites (probably Interlux and/or Pettit) for compatability--what can go on top of what. Very generally speaking, an ablative can go on a hard paint, but not vice-versa.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/20/2012 11:37:15

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 21:05:27

Hi Frank - The lake is a small, man-made lake in Western CT called Candlewood. The boat is on a roller trailer, the previous owner said he paints what he can get to and then rolls it backward and paints the rest. I was thinking about getting some stands and lowering the trailer after the stands are set. Any other thoughts?

Hi Dave - The previous owner used Interlux ACT in brackish water. The paint isn't bad looking for 3 seasons. I figured I might sand all the loose, prep with a cleaner, apply a coat of the Gray-White ACT, and 2 coats of Blue and try that for a season. Based on the datasheet, coverage is 430 Sq.ft/Gal. so I figured a quart of Gray-White and a gallon of Blue would work. The Gray-White would act as a wear indicator.

Please add any thoughts.

Regards,

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:23:47

I just ordered 2 Quarts of Gray-White and 1 Gallon of Blue Interlux ACT from www.Boatersland.com, they had the best price even with $19.00 shipping. Seeing that is what is on the boat now, I'm sticking with the same due to the issues stated above about VC-17. There isn't much left of the old so I should be safe with a 120 grit scuff and a wipe down with some solvent. I have a sanding rig for drywall that connects to the shop vac through a bucket filled with water. Works great on drywall dust, I'll let you know how it works on the ACT dust. I won't be doing the job until the end of May when I get the boat so if anyone has any more advice, I'm all ears.

Thanks,

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
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396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:36:07

FYI, I found another online store that was even less for the Interlux ACT, PBS Boat Store (www.pbsboatstore.com). Their price was $196.33 w/ Free Shipping, I paid $201.80 at Boatersland, Wholesale Marine (www.wholesalemarine.com) was: $213.73, and West Marine was: $269.97 for the 2 Quarts & 1 Gallon.

Regards,

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:50:12

Even with the vacuum, wear at least a painter's mask and goggles, and cover up when using a power sander (long sleeves and gloves at least). I prefer hand-sanding bottom paint so the dust doesn't fly as much. Ablative paint sands easily and generates a lot of fine, toxic dust.

Your quantities might be a bit marginal--I generally used 2/3 gallon for one coat un-thinned. I liked to thin it a little with the mfgr's designated thinner, especially on a warm, sunny day--that probably got me down to about a half gallon per coat.

Candlewood is a pretty lake, although I've heard the go-fast traffic is wicked on weekends. I also wonder about swirling winds coming off the hills around the lake... never tried it. Watch out for surprise jibes!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/22/2012 09:54:19

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 12:12:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BCG-Woodbury
 FYI, I found another online store that was even less for the Interlux ACT, PBS Boat Store (www.pbsboatstore.com)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good pricing, good customer service, good people.

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 13:05:07

Dave - Thanks for the heads-up. I was planning on protecting myself well, the boat won't be much good if the captain is dead (well, maybe to my wife's next husband), LOL. I used the calculation of LOA x Beam x .85 and the coverage from the Interlux guide of 430 sq.ft./Gal. I came up with 170 sq.ft. of surface. Based on that I'm closer to 3 coats from the gallon. I'm only doing 2 of the Blue and the 1st coat Gray-White. Maybe I'll look into the Thinner to be sure I get the coverage. The guide calls for 2 coats so eiher way I'll at least have the coverage.

OJ - Unfortunately I already ordered the paint from Boatersland before I found PBS Boat Store. If I need more, I'll definitely get it from there and the thinner if that is shippable, not sure.

Best regards,

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 13:11:12

Dave - My parents are on Candlewood and we have a powerboat there. I've only sailed Sunfish & Hobie's there. we never go out on the weekends, we both work in Danbury so it is easy for us to get up there after work. I'd rather take a day off during the week that try to attempt something there on the weekend. Two people were killed there in a boating collision a few years ago. Imagine being out there on a Jetski, I used to go all the time as a kid.

Regards,

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 15:23:57

Brian, your calculations might be right... But you'll also be painting the SK and the rudder (2 sides)--maybe another 20-25 sq. ft. I don't know whether your .85 allows for that.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4021 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 15:37:11

Also the manufacturers calculations are for a perfect thickness layer, Something you can't achieve. You will be using a roller and will overlap areas. Yours will be thin in some areas and thicker in others. The rollers will absorb some also.

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2012 : 09:14:03

Hey Dave & Scott - Those are all good points and some of which I overlooked. To be safe I added another QT of Blue and 1 Gal. of 216 Thinner/Solvent for wipedown, and a QT of 433 Thinner/Reducer for rolling/brushing. When I did the cost comparison with PBS, Boatersland still was the cheapest. Unfortunately my first order had been processed so I had to enter a new order. Thanks for the input, I'll let you know about the coverage later in May.

Regards,

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2012 : 20:06:25

I use about 3 quarts for one coat and only double coat the leading edges.

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BCG-Woodbury
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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2012 : 21:06:18

Dave B. -

How many coats do you usually do? I was thinking the 3 should be more than enough. I just deal with a little slime on our lake. We have our powerboat acid washed every year by the marina. The sailboat is going to be a DIY boat. I'll have a marina/mechanic winterize the outboard. I should be able to handle the rest.

Thanks,

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/26/2012 : 08:26:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BCG-Woodbury
 Dave B. -

How many coats do you usually do? I was thinking the 3 should be more than enough. I just deal with a little slime on our lake. We have our powerboat acid washed every year by the marina. The sailboat is going to be a DIY boat. I'll have a marina/mechanic winterize the outboard. I should be able to handle the rest.

Thanks,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you haul your boat every year at the end of the season, and launch in the spring, one coat of ablative is all you need. Any more than one coat will accumulate from year-to-year, and when it gets too thick, it will start peeling, like peeling house paint, and then you'll have to strip it all off, which is a nasty job. If you apply one coat per year, you'll use less paint, it will do the job, and it won't accumulate.

The last time I stripped my boat down to the gelcoat was about 5 years ago. Then I applied one coat of blue antifouling, and two coats of red antifouling. (When you see the blue start to bleed through, that tells you the paint is getting too thin.) Since then, I have only applied one coat per year, and had great results and a smooth, fast bottom.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/26/2012 08:31:26

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2012 : 21:59:49

I like the WM product, it goes on sale every spring for under $100.00 and works great. I sail the Great Lakes.

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