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Noob question after first sail RE: mainsail luff

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av8rOC
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USA
121 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2012 : 05:23:17

Hey guys,

Got the Hyde Aweigh out and motored her about an hour away to a local marina to put new CDI FF4 furler and North Sail 130% Genoa on.

On the way back in the afternoon the winds picked up a bit and I was able to have my first sail. I was sailing east with a some gusty southerly winds so I was actually able to get all the way back to my harbor on a beam reach without changing tack once. What a thrill!!

Anyways I have a question for you guys. When dousing the mainsail the slugs that attach the leech to the channel in the mast all fall out. Not a big deal but I see that you need to have someone feeding the leading edge at the mast and someone pulling the halyard (cockpit lead) every time you want to hoist. Not very effecient for single hand sailing.

Is that normal? It seems like it would be so much easier if the luff would stay in the channel when dousing. I included a pic for reference, notice the lowest slug isn't even in the channel.

PS. I realize I need some more luff tension in the photo but for some reason that was all I could put on the main halyard. Something is binding up top, I have to investigate that further. I also see that my jib was not trimmed properly either, I was playing with track car placement at the time. I was having trouble keeping the jib off the bow pulpit when I eased the sheet.

PPS. The mainsail is going to go. There is a tear towards the head of the sail and all in all its in very rough shape.

Thanks for your help

Sean
Hyde Aweigh 4
1984 SRFK #4152
LINY

Edited by - av8rOC on 04/21/2012 05:25:17

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 05:49:08

You need teh mast gate plate thinggies from CD. They are a lifesaver. If you will be changing sails with any degree of frequency carry spare screws - they have a tendancy to go overboard. If not, put anti-seize on the threads or you will have a heck of a time getting them out when you do need to do a sail change.

Order today!! http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1013

Edited by - on

av8rOC
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USA
121 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 06:15:25

That us EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you Prospector!

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 07:11:56

I have a need to remove my sail so instead of the mast gate I use the sail stop pictured on the left. I can move the stop up or down to keep the slugs in the track or slide it down to allow me to remove them.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 10:52:37

Like Davy, I also use the sail stop but I keep my main flaked on the boom with a main sail cover. It is rare that I ever take the sail stop off except for rare times - Getting sails cleaned or to replace a broken sail slug.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 11:52:55

What Larry said. Track stop to keep the sail in the track, and sail cover to keep from having to take the sail off after every sail. I'm more likely to remove my boom with the sail wrapped up on it than I am to remove the sail. I think I've had my main off the boom only once, when I sent it to SailCare for maintenance.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:20:05

The sail stops do not allow for a proper reef unless there is a jackline installed on the luff. The gate is the best way to go. It is always interesting what people feel is important, I think the mast gate is very important. Your luff issue may have been because yo did not have your vang and mainsheet completely off when you raised your sail. It is also possible you do not have the gooseneck downhaul set properly.

Jackline; see how the slug is on a line rather than the cringe of the luff. That way the slug can stay up above the sail stop but the reef cringe can be hard on the boom. We can start an entire thread about how poorly most people reef their sails.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/21/2012 13:28:44

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:59:49

Sean, Follow Franks advise on this and get the gate. CD sells you a gate that you will have to fabricate to fit your gate opening. On mine it was only on one side so I only needed one but others need to cover two. You will never get a smooth reef using the slide stop.

Edited by - islander on 04/21/2012 14:13:39

Davy J
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 16:33:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You will never get a smooth reef using the slide stop<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I get an excellent reef. I drop the main halyard to a marked spot, then go to the mast, move the sail stop down, drop two sail slugs out of the track, hook the reef cringle on a reef hook, move the sailstop above the cut-out. go back to cockpit and tension luff. Flat reef and no sail slugs sitting on boom.

Edited by - on

av8rOC
Navigator

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USA
121 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 17:54:05

Already ordered the gate this AM after Prospector's reply. I don't intend to take my sail off until winter so I think it will be best. Honestly I'm surprised this is an aftermarket product. Seems crazy to me to have the luff fall out every time you reef/douse the main.

Edited by - on

av8rOC
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 17:58:04

Scott I'm confused. The CD gate requires fabrication to fit? I guess all c25 slug openings are not created equal?

Edited by - av8rOC on 04/21/2012 17:59:08

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:23:36

You are right, They are all not created equal. Look at Franks photo of his mast gate and you will see that his is opened up on both sides of the slot and they are longer in length. Now look at my photo and you will see that it is opened on only one side and is much shorter. I guess it depended on years and who was cutting the gates on that particular day. CD gives you 2 plates, Screws and a drill bit and tap in the kit but you will more than likely have to cut the plates down to fit your particular gate. It not hard.
DavyJ, I think your doing way to much work, I drop the main to a mark on my halyard, Pull the luff reefing line and cleat, Pull the leech reefing line and cleat. Re-tension the luff. All done without leaving the cockpit. No trips to the mast. My boom is fixed, Not adjustable so there isn't any downhauls or reefing hooks needed.

Edited by - islander on 04/21/2012 19:36:56

pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:40:22

I believe Sean will have a slot on both sides based on his year. My gates fit perfectly out of the box and the tap has been very handy to have.
I reef and unreef from the cockpit in all winds on any point of sail. I use a two line system so I can get the clew tight, then the luff hard on the boom, then raise the main halyard. (with boom vang and mainsheet off.) This is what a good reef looks like, perfect sail shape when you need it most.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/21/2012 19:43:49

Davy J
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 04:47:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">DavyJ, I think your doing way to much work<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have to lower my mast every time I go out and then lower it every time I come back in. It is not possible for me to have a permanent jiffy reefing on the reef cringle because the sail and boom get removed each time I go out and each time I come back in. I do however have part of the reefing system on the backside of the main to speed the process up. It still requires me to go to the mast though.

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 05:44:09

Sorry Davy, I remembered your situation after the post and thought that was why.

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WesAllen
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:29:03

I had to just file the ends of the gates to make them fit perfectly. Well worth the money and time.

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av8rOC
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 12:01:46

That's a beautiful sail Frank, what brand?

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islander
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 12:31:35

That's an Ulman sail. Nice one too. Your Genoa is going to loop over the pulpit, Just part of Catalina thing if you have a full length luff. You could put a pennant on the tack to raise the sail off the deck but you would need room at the top for the sail to slide up the foil. You gain some visibility by doing this but you also raise the sail increasing heeling.

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av8rOC
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 13:39:12

Now I see the logo reefed on the bottom. I like the full battens. I'm in the market for a mainsail.. I was planning on going North to match my new 130% genny but I may have to look IMO the Ulmann.

I guess the pulpit can handle the load from the sail? Id be worried about bending metal or ripping the deck in a stuff breeze.

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islander
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Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 14:16:09

Won't harm the pulpit but it will get the sail in that area dirty from the metal.

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JimGo
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 06:53:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...Your luff issue may have been because yo did not have your vang and mainsheet completely off when you raised your sail. It is also possible you do not have the gooseneck downhaul set properly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,
Can you explain this comment? I understand the gooseneck part, but why would the vang and mainsheet be an issue? Are you assuming that the leach is tight and that's where he's getting tension (i.e., there's some "bagginess" at the foot near the tack)?

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 09:47:17

Yes. If the leech is tight before the luff is tight the halyard will not be able to get the sail all the way up. As an aside, if you only loosen the mainsheet a little, (the vang should always be off while hoisting), then you must maintain irons to get your sail up, if you cast off your mainsheet the boat can fall off and still not fill the sail and start sailing until you get your sail up. If it is windy then simply head the boat to the lee of irons let the boom out and after you get the sail up then haul in and sail away. These are small mains which go up quickly, I usually had one wrap to keep the halyard fair out of the clutch and then after pulling it to the top would add two more wraps and use the winch handle to tension the luff; clutch holds and you are off.

It is amazing how often you hear men screaming at their wives who cannot keep the boat into the wind with the outboard when all they have to do is cast off the mainsheet.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/23/2012 09:49:06

JimGo
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 09:58:37

Aha! Thanks. I think you've hit on another explanation as to why my main wouldn't go up all the way at the end of last season. Replacing the sheaves was still a good idea, but I bet my main sheet and vang were both tight when I tried to raise the main.

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islander
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 14:15:50

Yep, You can't pull up your pants if your standing on the cuffs

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av8rOC
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 14:29:02

Thought this thread was one and done after the first reply but admittedly I'm learning a ton! :)

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islander
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Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 14:43:42

Also If you have a topping lift once the main is up and the luff is tight and you haul in the main sheet the topping lift should be slack, No tension on it. You can see how Franks topping lift is sagging some in his photo.

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