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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Rope suggestion needed - bottom of lifeline nettin

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/04/2012 : 12:53:20

I started installing lifeline netting on Dragon Wing yesterday. It looks good, and I'm anxious to finish it. I need a way of tensioning the base of the netting, and my current plan is to run approximately 1/4" rope through the stantion bases and through the netting. I may wind up putting one or two pad eyes down between the stantions, if it isn't tight enough for my liking. But, as I'm looking into the rope types, I'm really confused as to what type would be best for my purposes. Do I want [URL="http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-pk-Samson-Braided-Awning-cord-rope-5-32-x-300-total-/190664536325?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c647df105"]braided dacron[/URL], [URL="http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-double-braid-polyester-yacht-rope-White-100ft-Premium-rope-Great-/300665080177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4601090971"]double braided polyester[/URL], cotton, [URL="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|311417|311408&id=440128"]nylon[/URL], or something else? I know it will be exposed to UV and will likely see a fair amount of chafing, so that just further complicates things!

- Jim
Formerly of 1984 C25 named Dragon Wing

NOTE: In my case, PLEASE don't confuse stars/number of posts with actual knowledge. On any topic.

Edited by - JimGo on 05/04/2012 12:58:05

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 14:13:34

Low stretch = dacron

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 14:48:03

Double-braid Dacron. Once you've rigged it, you don't want it to stretch. 3/16" is plenty.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 15:09:13

This is something I've considered doing. How are you mounting the mesh to the life lines? If the bottom is threaded through with 3/16" line as suggested, will it need to have interim places to anchor it to in addition to the stanchions? That's one of the main reasons I haven't done it, didn't want to drill a bunch of holes in my deck to mount the footman's loops or whatever. Plus un-stringing the lifelines to place the mesh over them looked to be a pain. Maybe there's a simpler way that I hadn't thought about?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 19:14:30

I did the top of the port side yesterday, and it was very easy. I removed a clevis pin from the turnbuckle at the bow, then unscrewed the turnbuckle and the wire was easy to unthread from the stantions. I started from the stern end and threaded the wire through several holes in the netting and stretched it to ensure it fit snuggly between each stantion. Then I threaded the wire through the stantion, and repeated all the way up to the bow. The final piece or two of the netting is captured in the turnbuckle. All in all, it probably took me 20 minutes to do that one side, so it wasn't a big deal.

As for the base, I've read that many people simply use zip ties to attach the base to the stantion via tension. I think I'd like something a little more substantial, so I'm going with rope. I'll see how loose it is between each stantion once that rope is under tension. As long as it's tight enough that my kids won't slip under it (allowing for some stretch), then that's sufficient for my purposes. Otherwise, I'll have to consider putting in pad eyes. I suspect one or two will be sufficient between each stantion base.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 22:46:55

I agree that 3/16 tat-set or equivalent should be sufficient, but I would secure it at every stanchion rather than just thread it through. You could lash it, tie it off, or just throw a clove hitch around each stanchion with a continuous line.

edit: The clove hitches would be very difficult to untie after a season.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 05/04/2012 22:51:09

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 07:53:42

A good way to tighten down the line running along the bottom of the mesh is to tie it off on one end with a hitch or a fisherman's hitch. Take two wraps around the stanchion and loop the bitter end around the standing part then loop it through the two wraps then clinch the hitch. This is a solid knot.
Let the mesh hang and run the line through the bottom of the mesh in a slight arch - let the line follow a contour that's higher in between the stanchions and lower at the ends.
On the far end, take one wrap around the stanchion then make a trucker's hitch about 6-8" back and use that to tighten the line.
The arch should flatten as you increase tension. If you can't get as much tension as you need, make the trucker's hitch a little longer.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 08:15:07

I clearly have some reading to do. I understood the words line, net, arch, and mesh.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:07:46

See animatedknots.com. See the round turn and 2 half hitches. For the fisherman's hitch put the line thru the turn around the post.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 18:07:42

You definitely need to know a few knots. You should be able to tie a bowline, clove hitch, 2 half hitches (bitter end ties a clove hitch around the standing part, rolling hitch, truckers hitch and figure eight blindfolded and drunk. Many others are useful, a some are better in select applications, most are more complicated and you can add them over time.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 20:48:38

I was partially kidding. I have a book on knots and am a big fan of animatedknots.

I got down to the boat today, but didn't get to take her out. I installed the starboard side lifelines and did some other basic maintenance stuff. I also tried out adding zip ties to the stantion bases as a means of attaching the bottoms of the netting, and there's no way that will be sufficient on its own. So, I'm about to order some dacron rope (probably StaSet).

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 06:52:52

As I was walking in to the office this morning, I thought of a better way to attach the netting. And, quite frankly, I'm a bit embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it before. When I installed the netting, I left the gate clips in place across the cockpit, but pulled out the remainder of the lifeline from the stanchions. I tucked a piece of the netting over that rear-most stanchion, then started threading the lifeline through the netting. I tested the netting for fit between the stantions, and once I had fed enough lifeline through the netting, I passed the lifeline through the stanchion, and allowed the netting to hang around the inside of the stanchion. In the picture below, you can see that the netting is loose at the aft-most stanchion, and you can kind of make out the bow shape to the bottom of the netting. Even adding zip ties to the base of the netting really didn't do anything for me.

What I realized this morning is that, when you remove the lifelines from the stanchions, the stanchion just stands there, like a big dowel. You can feed the netting OVER the stanchion, too (yeah, I know, I'm a little slow some times)! I might have realized this sooner if I had removed more of the lifeline (i.e., had taken out part of what's in the cockpit, too). In this "new" way of doing it, you are also using the lifeline to provide tension across the top, but a good bit of the netting's "strength" will come from the fact that it is supported all the way down the stanchion. The stanchion will also help give better tension vertically along the netting.

Given that next weekend is Mother's Day Weekend, I won't get a chance to try this out until the weekend of the 19th.

Edited by - JimGo on 05/07/2012 10:30:21

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 07:38:11

Jim,

Does your genoa sheet between the track car and winch run inboard or outboard of the stanchion.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 07:40:46

Don,
Unfortunately, it runs outboard. It has to pass under the netting.

Edited by - JimGo on 05/07/2012 10:28:44

dlucier
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 08:03:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Don,
Unfortunatelt, it runs outboard. It has to pass under the netting.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If the sheet runs outboard of the stanchion, it appears there wouldn't be any netting to run under???

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 08:50:44

The way it was set up on Saturday is that the sheet runs under the genoa car (i.e., the sheave on the genoa track - hope I'm calling it the right thing!) and crosses to the winch in front of the aft-most stanchion (i.e., not counting the pushpit). I can try moving that genoa car farther aft, so I can cross behind the last stanchion instead. That might solve the problem.

Edited by - JimGo on 05/07/2012 10:28:25

dlucier
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 09:20:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 The way it was set up on Saturday is that the sheet runs under the genoa car (i.e., the sheave on the genoa track - hope I'm calling it the right thing!) and crosses to the winch in front of the aft-most stantion (i.e., not counting the pushpit). I can try moving that genoa car farther aft, so I can cross behind the last stantion instead. That might solve the problem.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahh, so your sheet runs inboard of the aft stanchion, not as you said earlier (outboard).

You shouldn't move your genoa track car just to shift the sheet lead as this will affect sail trim.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 10:27:35

Ahhhh! Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought you were asking about running inboard of ALL of the stanchions (thanks for the spelling correction, too!).

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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/12/2012 : 19:54:53

Jim,
I am planning on adding netting to my boat as well. I am curious about how your project ended up. Before I read this thread I also struggled with how to tension the bottom. I came up with an idea and have only partially tried it. What I did was take the ratcheting part of a ratchet strap and remove the long loose end. Then I bought a 75' length of nylon webbing the same width as the one I removed from the ratchet. This I can run completely around the boat, weaving it through the stantion bases and tying it to the ratchet then tension the whole perimeter using the ratchet.
So far I have tried it by just tying it to the bow pulpit and then hookin the ratchet to the stern pulpit and cranking down. It gets good and tight and if you pull up on it between stantions it snaps back down real hard. I have yet to run it 360 degrees around the boat to try. What I dont like is having the big ratchet buckle out somewhere it might get stepped on or a toe stubbed on. I am also not sure i need that much tension to feel secure. Also, I have not yet come up with a good way of making the netting openable in the area near the cockpit.
I would love to know how your setup worked

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