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Survey Questions

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Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:07:22

I got a nibble on Heartbeat.

The prospective buyer asked primarily about a survey. I didn't worry about a survey when I bought, so am new to this whole thing. (Seems like a waste of money to me, but since I have owned and maintained the boat for so long I feel I know the condition of the boat.) What will a survey tell you?

What is the policy regarding a potential buyer and a survey? He pays, or ?

The boat is already in the water. A hoist will cost a few bucks: who pays for that?

My trailer is already back at my house. Will the surveyor want to review the trailer?

TIA

Matt

former Captain of Heartbeat
Catalina 25 Tall
#4816

Edited by - Heartbeat on 05/05/2012 09:08:04

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:12:50

The survey is a buyer's expense. However, if I were a buyer and the seller was too reluctant to cooperate with the survey, I'd be looking at a different boat. You might offer to deduct the cost of the lift out for the survey if the buyer agrees to purchase the boat. If I were the buyer, I'd want a close look at the trailer. The marine surveyor may or may not be the right person for that job.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:21:55

I'm not against a survey, and will certainly provide everything requested.

>You might offer to deduct the cost of the lift out for the survey if the buyer agrees to purchase the boat.

So ask for the lift $$, then refund if we reach a deal? That seems fair.

Thanks.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:30:31

The buyer pays survey costs. A buyer should only order a survey when he has examined the boat, and is fairly certain that he wants to buy it, because, if he doesn't buy it, then his eventual cost of buying a boat will be increased by the cost of all the surveys. The value of a survey to the buyer is that he not only knows the condition of the boat before he commits to buying it, but he can also use the survey to prove to the seller that the boat needs repairs, and to negotiate a reduction in the price to help compensate for those repair costs. If the sails are old, or the boat needs bottom paint, he might ask you to share all or some percentage of those costs with him. When I bought my boat, I was able to negotiate a reduction in the purchase price that more than compensated for the cost of the survey.

I would certainly cooperate with any potential buyer who wants to have the boat surveyed, but I would be reluctant to share any significant part of the survey costs with him. Otherwise, you could end up paying part of the costs of repeated surveys that didn't result in a sale of the boat. In a sense, when a buyer pays for survey costs, it is a measure of his seriousness about buying your boat.

While the suggestion to pay the cost of the haul-out sounds reasonable, remember that, after the survey, the seller will almost certainly ask you to make additional reductions in the purchase price as a result of defects noted by the surveyor. Just be careful that you don't allow yourself to be nickel-dimed until you accept a price that is too low. In negotiations, don't give away too much, too early. You can always make concessions later.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/05/2012 09:42:05

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:41:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 A buyer should only order a survey when he has examined the boat, and is fairly certain that he wants to buy it, because, if he doesn't buy it, then his eventual cost of buying a boat will be increased by the cost of all the surveys.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, the whole arranging for a survey thing before he sails (or even looks at) the boat surprised me. On the other hand, maybe the survey request is a good thing. Or maybe he doesn't know how much they cost.

Thanks for the response.

Matt

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 10:58:54

Another way to look at it... If you were buying a house, would you accept the seller's home inspection report as an indication of its condition, or would you contract an inspector to do one for you? Marine surveys are the same thing--a buyer commissions the survey to verify condition and possibly negotiate a price adjustment based on "surprises" the survey turns up. Or the survey might even induce the buyer to walk away. (It has happened.)

If the seller pays the surveyor and receives the report, it wouldn't work for me as a buyer.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 11:15:59

Well, the (pre?) survey is set up for Monday at 4. He didn't ask for a hoist at this time. He said he wants to check moisture levels in the deck. The deck is solid, so I don't expect any problems.

Weird, but since it's his dime... *shrug*

Matt

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 11:30:58

Seems odd that he'd schedule a survey that didn't include pulling the boat out of the water to look at the hull. If he decides he wants to buy it, is he planning on having the boat hauled then? Maybe he's just being extra cautious because he's new to the process, but it would be another toll on your time to have the boat inspected twice for the same buyer.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 12:27:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Seems odd that he'd schedule a survey that didn't include pulling the boat out of the water to look at the hull. If he decides he wants to buy it, is he planning on having the boat hauled then? Maybe he's just being extra cautious because he's new to the process, but it would be another toll on your time to have the boat inspected twice for the same buyer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Since the C25 has a solid fiberglass hull, rather than a cored hull, the surveyor might have advised him that a haulout isn't as critical. It's usually a lot easier to repair blisters than to re-core a hull. With a C25, the surveyor can examine the rudder without hauling the boat. Maybe the buyer is assuming some risk to reduce his costs. Heck, some people wouldn't have a survey done at all.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 19:42:07

You as the seller shouldn't have to lay out a dime in my opinion. When I bought my boat we took it out for a test sail with the surveyor and then had it pulled so he could check the bottom which included pressure washing. All of the above was on my dime and I didn't expect the seller to pay anything. The survey is to protect your interest.

You might think about working out an agreement with the buyer that states if the buyer has it surveyed and walks away from the deal that you get a copy of the survey for your records. In this case maybe you split the cost of the survey if he walks away.

Also, maybe this guy looked at or owned a boat that had deck moisture problems and he wants to check the deck out before going through with a full survey.

In my opinion the potential buyer should have everything scheduled for the same day as David mentioned so he's not eating up your time on multiple days.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 12:23:12

Raining today, so we rescheduled to Wednesday.

What does a survey cost? I am thinking this has got to be on the order of $400. This is the guy coming to look at it, and it looks expensive.
http://www.downrivermarinesurveyors.com/

Maybe I am just a cheap skate, but if moisture was my biggest concern, I would dig up a friend or acquiantance with a meter and take the readings myself. That's what I did when I barrier coated it back in '06.

Matt

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 12:41:31

I paid $400 for one several years ago here in the midwest. I'm sure costs vary by area and the time of year. Mine was in the winter with the boat on the hard. I never bought that boat.

Moisture meters, as I understand it, are easy to use but hard to accurately interpret.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2012 : 20:40:11

If he negotiated deck core moisture readings only, it might not be that much... Otherwise, $400 is in the normal ballpark.

It's safe to assume the surveyor will find some things that this buyer might think should reduce the price... (That's a surveyor's job.) It's reasonable for you to respond by reminding the buyer that he's looking at a 28-year-old (?) boat--not a new one, and you priced it as a 28-year-old boat--i.e. ~$30K (or whatever) less than a new one. Now, if the surveyor finds something that's a big surprise to you, that's another matter...

...and it might be time to renegotiate.

Hope all goes well!

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:36:38

Well, the buyer backed out before the survey was done. He said he was looking at another boat closer to him.

Why is selling a boat such an emotional roller coaster?

Matt

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:41:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why is selling a boat such an emotional roller coaster?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is why there are boat brokers!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 11:28:11

I have yet to see a boat survey or house inspection that had any surprises in it, but still, I order them and then feel like it was a waste of money afterwards.

The one time I didn't get an inspection, I was very disappointed in teh house we bought and wished I had.

I think they call that Murphy's law.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 13:01:15

Matt,
Sorry the deal on Heartbeat fell through.

At least you learned a few things in the process. Selling my last boat was similar, we went through at least half a dozen prospective buyers before the current owners showed up. He was by far the most methodical of any of the buyers and found some things I hadn't noticed (a small patch of deck delamination) and knocked my price down a bit, but eventually bought the boat.

Keep your chin up, a new buyer will be along shortly and this time you'll be able to anticipate some of what's going to happen.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 14:33:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...The one time I didn't get an inspection, I was very disappointed in teh house we bought and wished I had. I think they call that Murphy's law.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's Murphy's Fourth Corrolary.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 17:52:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ..... It's reasonable for you to respond by reminding the buyer that he's looking at a 28-year-old (?) boat--not a new one, and you priced it as a 28-year-old boat--i.e. ~$30K (or whatever) less than a new one.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would be very up front with any serious buyer, considering a survey, why my boat is priced as it is....and if they want a survey, fine, it's their dime, but it will not result in a price drop....so don't expect survey results to negotiate a lower price.

Now, if I had a new(ish) boat priced at market value, and we're in a much better neighborhood ($$$$ wise), that's a different story.

Edited by - on

AtEase
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2012 : 14:11:38

Most surveys are priced by the foot, depends on the area of the country, I paid $14/foot a few years ago. Haul out was not included and it was solely the buyer's responsibility.

Edited by - AtEase on 05/24/2012 14:12:39

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