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Is a Dremel 8200 the right tool?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/25/2012 : 07:03:51

Hi all,

This is a supplemental post to my other post in the C25 section regarding the bulkhead holding my waste tank in place. My original plan was to use a cutting blade on a cordless drill, but I was cautioned against that. The cutting blade itself says not to use on drills, and I was warned that the cordless drill will likely not get the RPMs high enough.

What WAS recommended was a cordless Dremel 8200. I've never used a Dremel before, so am hoping I can get some good feedback from some of the folks here. :) If the Dremel is the recommended tool of choice, I'll have to purchase it. So I'd like to get some opinions before I shell out the cash. Below is a link to the original post in the C25 section, and the Dremel and a reposting of the bulkhead I want to remove.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25055

http://www.lowes.com/pd_327564-353-8200-1/28_0__?catalogId=10051&productId=3182789&UserSearch=dremel+8200&Ntt=dremel+8200&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 07:45:03

If you buy a Dremel, buy a good one like you linked to.

I got a cheapo Harbor Freight one....Only made it through a couple of projects before the motor burned up. Never again.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
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Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 07:50:11

Try borrowing or renting a Dremel or consider a reciprocating saw for the job

Edited by - on

Ben
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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 08:01:21

Henk, I'd be afraid of a reciprocating saw in that application. I own a Dewalt reciprocating saw, and it would seem to me that I'd need something that could be used with a bit more precision than what I could get with the reciprocating saw.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 08:55:14

I bought the Dremel Trio which allows you to cut a straight line or a circle or function like the small hand only versions... Has a removable foot and a removeable guide for cutting holes and straight cuts.

sten

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 09:25:40

The Dremels spin at around 20000 rpm and Dremels come with cutting blades/drills. However, the blades are only about 1/2-3/4" radius. Given that, the body of the Dremel sometimes interferes with making a perfectly perpendicular cut. But you can definitely cut fiberglass with them, though, depending on location of cut, it may be at a slight angle to make most use of cutting thru the thickness. Dremels, while they turn at a very high rpm have very little load capability and so the cutting is very slow so as not to slow down or stop the blade. I have both a cordless and wired Dremel. Since I normally do not utilize dock power (they charge addl for that at my marina), I perform most projects with my cordless Dremel if I have to do any cutting like when I installed a new electrical panel below the sink. Since the fiberglass was not too thick, the cordless Dremel worked fine. However, a cordless Dremel may need to be recharged inorder to complete some cuts as the cut progress is relatively slow. This was okay for most of my projects as I would make some progress, go sailing and then come back the next day and finish the job.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/25/2012 09:49:03

OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:08:01

As I've said in previous posts - I often judge the merit of a project by the number of tools (toys) I have to buy

A multimaster style tool would be good for this application. This one = German quality but, unfortunately, German price.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202924673&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202924673&ci_kw=%7bkeyword%7d&kwd=%7bkeyword%7d&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgoogleads%2d%5f%2dpla%2d%5f%2d202924673&ci_gpa=pla

Edited by - OJ on 05/25/2012 10:09:33

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:08:22

I've never owned a cordless Dremel, but I own a number of cordless Dewalt tools. In general cordless is great, until as pointed out, you need to make an extended cut, which is when they start to show their limitations. If you have shore power available, I'd recommend a corded model instead of the battery powered one.

I've currently got an older model corded Dremel that I've been using for years. You can get any number of accessories for them, including router bases which might help to make perpendicular cuts in your case, as well as flexible shafts which make getting into tight spaces easier.

You might also consider a [url="http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100634645&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100634645&ci_kw={keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100634645&ci_gpa=pla"]cut out tool[/url], which are designed for the type of cutting you're talking about doing. I have the one in the link and use it all the time for making no start hole cuts into material. You can also get bits that fit both it and a Dremel, so they can be shared if necessary.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:11:26

Thanks folks, I talked to a guy at Lowes, and he recommended this instead, so I bought it. It sounds like it'll be a lot easier and more appropriate to the application than the Dremel would be.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_97892-54602-RK2514K2_0__?catalogId=10051&productId=3392510&UserSearch=rk2514k2&Ntt=rk2514k2&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

Now to charge it in preparation for tonight's trip to the boat. :)

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 11:11:43

Ben,

I have one of those multimaster type vibrating sanding/cutting tools as well. Mine is made by Rockwell but basically same as your photo depicts. I have not used it for many projects as of yet but it works great for sanding epoxy filled holes on my deck where carpenter bees have drilled unbelievable sized holes in the wood. I think that tool will work well for your application. Please let us know how it actually works out as I have not used it's cutting tool yet and curious how it performs for something like the task you have planned for it.

Edited by - on

Ben
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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 11:16:33

Will do, Larry. :)

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and advice. Hopefully I'll be reporting a job well done later tonight.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 11:50:23

IMHO...

Bigger hammer.. Crowbar. I'd think that tape would break out pretty easy. Can't see how well they filleted up the inside but some of mine are breaking out on their own on my boat.

You might take a chisel and tap along the seam on your side to cut it and bang it out from the inside.

Don't be breathing the residue when you cut it out.

I think they laid that up pretty thin anticipating that one day it would have to come out.

But then it's easy for me to say..

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 12:30:33

I'll be curious to hear how the Rockwell Multi Master-like tool works out too. I've tried to talk myself into a Fein any number of times, but just couldn't, but OJ found a pretty good price! However, I can pick up a pneumatic "multi-master" tool from Harbor Freight for something like $20 and a bunch of blades for another $20, so it makes it hard to justify spending a couple hundred for a tool. Of course, you get what you pay for, but I think for a small one off job, it might be worth it. When I removed the tile floors in my kitchen & den a few years back, I could have certainly used one for some of the cuts we ended up making by hand.

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OJ
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Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 13:03:26

Ben, I forget the proper name - but the gold colored - carbide encrusted blade does a really nice job cutting fiberglass and smoothing residual glass and gel coat. When I cut the hole in the liner for the boweye - I could not have done it without a multitool

David, I paid more

- looks like Dremel and Rockwell are giving Fein a run for their money.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 16:08:02

David, I had same issue for years - Buying the Fein industrial grade multimaster or go with one of the less expensive ones that came out later from Dremel, Ryobi, Rockwell, etc. I finally settled on the Rockwell. A number of them come cordless such as the Ryobi and one or two of the 6 clones that are now made similar to the original Fein product.

I decided to go with a wired model since there are long periods of non-use by me. I think the big difference besides the fact that the Fein machine is just a more industrial rugged power tool is that the Fein blades last longer. But since I am not using it every day and same goes for most of us, the other multimasters out there will probably hold up okay with perhaps the need to buy some addl blades for big jobs. The sanding pads probably last about the same for all the units including the Fein.

The only thing where the Dremel may work better for cutting is if you have to make a straight line cut. For mouldings, the Multimasters can't be beat because the blade is perhaps just a little narrower than the width of moulding, so you just make two slits. But for a long straight line cut, you have to make many slits with multimaster and exactly the point where the last slit ended. The Dremel cuts by speed and very slowly so it only cuts incrementally light loads but it can be held against the project and continue cutting straight after the slit has been started - So the Dremel can cut a clean fairly straight cut and long but just slower than the multimaster, however, maybe a bit jagged since it does not cut in a straight line except by making continual slits next to each other. For the cutting mentioned mentioned in this posting, I suspect the multimaster is better suited to the task but if making a cutout in a visible area for say a new switch panel....both are up to the task with Dremel winning out for a clean fairly straight continual cut vs cutting slits but faster with the multimaster. Maybe if careful, the multiMaster can cut smooth and straight if each slit cut is lined up carefully or....and this what I am not sure about, how well the multimaster could cut a straight line continually if angled into the project.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/26/2012 04:19:46

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 17:35:22

I'm with Ray, Sharp razor knife or carpet knife, Score it a few times and snap it out with a hammer.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 17:46:53

From the cheap seats...

I'd get it "close enough" with the Recipro saw, rip out the tank, then spend 2 weeks trying to sand and grind down what was left of the bulkhead. Once it was all out and in the trash, I would change my mind and want it all back in again, and try to rebuilt it. I would be almost done by haul out with another project to complete before launch next year.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 18:01:45

Cut a hole in the top of the tank. Empty/Clean it out. Cut up the tank and remove it.

Edited by - on

iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 06:10:43

I just replaced my holding tank last week and I used a chisel to cut the fiberglass holding the plywood. Then used 2 layers of fiberglass cloth and unthickened epoxy after the new tank was installed. Put a few coats of paint on it yesterday.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 07:00:26

Hi all,

Thanks again for all your input and advice. I used the Rockwell tool, and it worked beautifully. The one I bought was the cordless version, which was a requirement because I'm already on the water with no way to supply power to a corded tool. I was concerned the strength of the tool would suffer since it was cordless, or that the power would noticably diminish as the blade pushed through the tough fiberglass matting (because some of it was layered up thick), but it worked like a champ. I was pleasantly surprised with the performance with it being a cordless power tool. Of course, the project was a small project, with only a few minutes worth of real use. But if that's all you need, then this could be a good, inexpensive option for someone who would only need to use it hear and there around the boat or house or wherever from time to time. The fact that it's also a detail sander adds to the usability around the boat.

I was very careful keeping the cutting blade away from the outer hull, because it would make quick work of it if the blade dug in, putting a bad hole in the bottom of a floating, soon to be sinking, boat.

The tool came with one set of blades of varying sizes. I started out with the "standard" blade, which has a flat from edge about a inch and a quarter wide. My only complaint is that the teeth on the blade soon wore out. I switched to the circular wood/metal blade, and finished it up. Maybe the fiberglass was unduly hard on the blade, or maybe the blades are a weak spot with the tool overall. In any case, I woudl recommend having a few spare blades. Incidentally, the tool has an attachment that lets it use non-Rockwell blades, which is pretty cool.

So if you were interested in how the tool performed, there's my assessment. :)

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 07:15:15

Ben...did you take pictures?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 17:49:21

Hi Joe, I did, but only of the finished project. Here is the picture right after I took the waste tank out.

And here is the pic after I cleaned that area up.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 17:51:45

Okay, my wife just saw the post. She cleaned up that area. :)

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/12/2012 : 05:02:15

<< She cleaned up that area. :) >>

Pretty Funny...

Ben... thanks for posting that .. I need to do the same thing.. I've replaced everything on my head but the tank and it would be great to get that area underneath the tank cleaned up.

The black tank is a pain cause you can't see how full it is.

Not a fun job so I'm sure it always gets bumped down the list.

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Prospector
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Canada
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Response Posted - 06/12/2012 : 07:22:39

Hmmm... You may have just made a project for me.

Looks like you found a tonne of stowage space there. Got details on the bladder? Since we barely use our head this may be a viable project to conver waste space into stowage. I can imagine some nice drawer-fronts down there to match the galley.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/12/2012 : 07:47:15

<< Got details on the bladder? >>

I thought most were just using a new white tank. I think the blatter was for water storage.

Mine had a knotmeter through hull there ( aft ) so you didn't want to put stuff by it... but I had mine removed and glassed over.

Yepper.. hatch door would be cool.

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