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Temporary Teak Touchup

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/26/2012 : 20:21:04

My teak looks terrible. The Cetol has flaked off a lot of it and the wood has started to weather. It's too hot to do a full blown strip and re-application.

How big of a mess would I make if I lightly sanded the teak (like 5 minutes a side) to get the loose Cetol off and then applied a new coat just to hold me over until it gets cooler?

I know the weathered areas would look darker. I'm just looking for a quick and dirty way to stop the weathering. Would this make it more difficult to get a good even appearance later?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 22:40:22

If you don't mind the weathered look, teak really doesn't need any covering. It's natural oils keep it in good shape. I've read more than once that you only varnish your teak just before you're ready to sell.

However, I'd think your plan should be workable.

Edited by - on

dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2012 : 23:55:30

I've been working on mine as well. If you get a chance, take a look at those two teak 'wings' outside the companionway on mine. I sanded them and applied teak oil and then a thin coat of tung oil a few months later and they're looking very good I think... Especially compared to the rest. =)

I started working on the hatchboards as well, but they need a lot more sanding before they'll look good again. I managed to get the weatherboard and handle off the hatch today. Someone used something that looked like white silicon to attach it at some point. I had to cut through the adhesive to get it off. I'm hoping to get that sanded and back on the boat tomorrow.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 05:42:17

Which pieces are you looking at? I use cetol with a light reapplication each year, and have never had it flake.

Light sand and do-over. The dark spots hardly show after a season.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 08:16:24

I think that this speaks to the problems with paint on a boat. Face it, Cetol is a painted-on covering for the teak. Paint doesn't last forever and when it starts to fail, it requires substantial work to make it new again. A periodic treatment with teak and/or tung oil probably requires a lot less labor over the course of a year than does the prepping, painting, prepping and repainting. I'd bet that once the teak is properly prepared and initially treated, a refresher coat of oils would take about a half-hour per month. And, you wouldn't have that artificial orange glow that Cetol gives the wood. (Can you tell I'm not a fan?

)

All this having been said by a guy with a boat that has no exterior and very limited interior teak.

Edited by - John Russell on 05/27/2012 08:17:07

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 10:09:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Which pieces are you looking at? I use cetol with a light reapplication each year, and have never had it flake.

Light sand and do-over. The dark spots hardly show after a season.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The hand rails are the worst and mine are flaking because I haven't done anything to them since I bought the boat 4-1/2 years ago. That's my bad.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 10:13:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dolivaw
 I've been working on mine as well. If you get a chance, take a look at those two teak 'wings' outside the companionway on mine. I sanded them and applied teak oil and then a thin coat of tung oil a few months later and they're looking very good I think... Especially compared to the rest. =)

I started working on the hatchboards as well, but they need a lot more sanding before they'll look good again. I managed to get the weatherboard and handle off the hatch today. Someone used something that looked like white silicon to attach it at some point. I had to cut through the adhesive to get it off. I'm hoping to get that sanded and back on the boat tomorrow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was sitting on my boat yesterday morning admiring your "wings" and your hatchboards. They look very nice. I thought they had Cetol on them.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 10:36:08

)

I don't think the new natural Cetol has the orange glow. Although there is a good cahnce I'm wrong about that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - GaryB on 05/27/2012 10:42:43

John Russell
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USA
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Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 10:57:58

Sorta true, Gary. However, gelcoat will last nearly forever if properly maintained. That is, the occasional polish/wax job. The sad truth is that most of us -- Especially me -- don't. We're too busy sailing. Once it goes bad, restoring it takes a lot more work and time than the overlooked maintenance would have.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My Cetol lasted 3 years without me doing anything before it started showing the initial signs of flaking. If I had sanded and touched up the few loose spots it would probably still be doing fine.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
See previous comment. I'd bet that once you get around to restoring your teak, you will have spent a lot more hours and sore muscles than oil maintenance might have taken.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 12:19:53

I'll suggest a very light sanding (scuffing) of the whole surface, and a bit heavier on the bare and peeling spots to expose brighter teak. Then put a a couple of coats of Cetol on the bare wood (essentially spot-priming), and later a coat over the whole surface. I think you'll be satisfied.

I'm a fan of Cetol and the finished look. The maintenance is much simpler than varnish--complete removal is only needed after severe neglect (and is also substantially easier than with varnish). I'm not looking for a Concours-worthy result, but when I walk through a marina, the boats that look good to me have finished brightwork, the oiled teak has somebody oiling it every few weeks (and trying to get the oil stains off their decks), and the "gray" teak generally has cracks, splits, and mildew. I guess I'm just not a genuine "old salt." But I gotten a lot of compliments on my boats, and I have to suspect the Cetol-ed brightwork had a lot to do with it.

Cetol Natural Teak is lighter and yellower than Cetol Marine (the original), and according to both my experience and Practical Sailor's, does not stand up to UV as well as the Marine. And to my eye, Cetol Marine is not as "orange" as it used to be--I've seen other teak finishes that make more unnatural colors (including purple) to my eye. Besides, freshly oiled teak is pretty "orange."

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/27/2012 12:24:40

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 12:55:32

I think I might go ahead and give it a shot just for grins. Worst case scenario is I have to strip and re-do the whole rail.

I have the can the PO used. It's been stored in the bottom of the boat. How long do you think this stuff will last sitting in a can?

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 13:29:47

If it's heavily skinned over, it might not be any good--the balance of the ingredients will be off. If not, it should be OK.

And remember, what looks bad to your critical eye from two feet will probably look great to everyone else from five.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/27/2012 13:31:16

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 14:20:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And remember, what looks bad to your critical eye from two feet will probably look great to everyone else from five.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I call this my "dad" check. If nobody but me or my dad would notice the flaw (he was a stickler), it's probably good enough. I have a mirror frame in our living room that has a horribly obvious flaw in it (to me), on the rare occasion that I mention it, I invariably have to point it out for people to see it. Same thing with a dining room table I made for some friends. One of the legs is easily seen to be a smaller diameter than the other three. About three years after I'd made it, I pointed it out to my friends who had never noticed it.

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 14:57:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I'd bet that once you get around to restoring your teak, you will have spent a lot more hours and sore muscles than oil maintenance might have taken.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've found Cetol to be much less work than using teak oil. I completely refinished my teak over eleven years ago and since then I've put a quick and easy maintenance coat every other year. It still looks great. When I was using teak oil, I was constantly applying it as it seamed to vanish into thin air in no time. For me, Cetol is much less work than constantly oiling teak.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 18:34:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 If you don't mind the weathered look, teak really doesn't need any covering. It's natural oils keep it in good shape. I've read more than once that you only varnish your teak just before you're ready to sell.

However, I'd think your plan should be workable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Our 1984 had some teak that had completely failed. It sure doesn't look like it was ever treated with anything before, although I did find a rusty bottle of teak oil in the dumpster.

Without oil it seems like anywhere with small sections (like the part that holds the drop boards in place) will dry out and eventually crack off.

However for a few months I don't think I'd worry about it. I haven't even finished fixing most of the teak on our boat, we're having too much fun sailing it. Sometime when it is dry this summer I'll pull off the hand holds and bring those home for repair.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2012 : 19:51:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I think that this speaks to the problems with paint on a boat. Face it, Cetol is a painted-on covering for the teak. Paint doesn't last forever...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">With all due respect to John, who I consider a "virtual" friend by way of this community, I will point out that he has a C-250 with no exterior teak. And his statement that Cetol is "paint" is highly debatable--to be charitable presuming never used it, but has read various opinions here, which have certainly varied across the spectrum (as they do on every sailing forum).

Cetol is not varnish... It is not paint. It is something else, with some important characteristics:

1. When sun heats the teak, it allows internal moisture and oils to permeate its surface.

2. When it wears or even peels off, a light sanding and touch-up will give a "reasonably" acceptable result. (Not true with paint or varnish!)

In contrast, a spar varnish finish is unforgiving--the slightest crack or other failure quickly leads to the need to strip it and start over. It's the "Concours" finish, like Bristol Finish, that never stops "forgiving." We have members (maybe past-) who have attested to this in spades.

Cetol simply is what it is--the easiest solution I know of for people who want to keep a "finished" appearance on their boats. Island Packet, Sabre, Com-Pac, and Tartan, that I know of, apply it to their brightwork (unless directed otherwise) because their customers want it. Buyers of 1970 boats might have different tastes...

If you like natural (gray) teak, and are willing to let it crack and mildew, or are willing to apply oil every month or two, that's your choice. All other opinions are always welcome here!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/27/2012 19:53:10

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 06:33:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I think that this speaks to the problems with paint on a boat. Face it, Cetol is a painted-on covering for the teak. Paint doesn't last forever...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">With all due respect to John, who I consider a "virtual" friend by way of this community, I will point out that he has a C-250 with no exterior teak. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hmmmmm.... that's what I said.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All this having been said by a guy with a boat that has no exterior and very limited interior teak.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 21:14:14

Refinished the weatherboard and hand loop on the sliding hatch today. Looks really nice now... Although I really need to stay away from the 3M 4000 when I have no masking tape. That stuff gets EVERYWHERE.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 02:48:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dolivaw
 Refinished the weatherboard and hand loop on the sliding hatch today. Looks really nice now... Although I really need to stay away from the 3M 4000 when I have no masking tape. That stuff gets EVERYWHERE.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ron,

Feel free to work on my teak whenever you feel like it! I'm only 20' away!

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 08:50:31

Gary,

I also have some flaking of Cetol in a few areas. My thought is that Cetol, while easier to apply and maintain compared to varnish, Cetol seems to be softer and more prone to wear in areas that get stepped on or see some kind of abuse. But I like Cetol compared to other options like varnishing or using teak oil mostly because Cetol is easier for me to deal with having the boat in the water all year. I will either do a hard scrubbing/washing of the exterior wood or light sanding before applying refresh costs year after year. Those areas that were worn down or flaked to bare wood turn out to be lighter when Cetol is re-applied but overall the wood looks a lot better than letting it weather.

What I have thought about doing is utiizing the snap fittings located on my deck top and using Sunbrella, make a cover to fit over most of the wood protecting it from the elements. Then varnish or going with teak oil would be doable and would last a long time. I prefer the look of varnish or teak oil compared to Cetol but it's the amount of maintenance that Cetol wins out. My tiller has the original varnish on it and I have never re-touched it. It only has a worn spot near it's end where I wrap a line around it to hold it steady when I leave for the day. The tiller looks great. The Sunbrella cover on the tiller makes the difference. It cuts down on the maintenance to vitually...none. In absence of a Sunbrella covering,Cetol is my choice. But a Sunbrella covering would bring the other options into play. Maybe one day, I will pursue making a cover.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/29/2012 08:56:19

dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 15:38:48

Gary... You'd have to have a lot of patience. It's only taken me a year to do the four pieces I've finished, plus the hatchboards I've half completed. =)

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