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first cruise and anchoring questions

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 07:31:06

This thread has been interesting, my boat oscillates a bit (hunts?) after I drop the hook but to me it's just something normal and as long as I'm not dragging or getting close to someone else it's never bothered me. I use a lot of rode and as long as my anchor is secure the boat can go wherever she wants.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 10:12:25

A question for those of you that say the boat is sailing on the anchor line:

Is the anchor line tied directly to one of the mooring cleats?

My guess is, that is the reason the boat is moving around. With the anchor line coming directly to the cleat, it puts the boat at a slight angle to the wind. The reason I say this is because I added that anchor roller to the boat shortly after buying it. I've anchored in some fairly heavy winds and do not recall a single incident where the boat sailed around on the rode.

Edited by - Davy J on 06/01/2012 10:15:49

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 10:17:54

Yes, I am tying the anchor to the bow mooring cleat. I don't have an anchor roller yet.

The explanation of why the bridle worked was interesting.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 10:45:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The explanation of why the bridle worked was interesting.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I hadn't read that, but now that I have, I think my guess is right. And that my anchor roller, much like the bridle, is keeping the anchor rode centered on the boat.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 13:25:47

Davy, Your photo of the anchor roller interests me because I have one of those rollers in my garage. I might install it if this will tame the wild ride down but do you have a separate cleat mounted behind the anchor locker or do you cleat the rode to the factory cleats.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 13:41:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">do you have a separate cleat mounted behind the anchor locker or do you cleat the rode to the factory cleats.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I use the starboard mooring cleat to tie up the anchor line. However, the rode stays captive in the anchor roller and therefore stays in line with the bow. The real reason I installed the roller is, I use a Guardian anchor and it would not fit in the locker. The second reason, is that I can deploy the anchor without having to lift up, or fiddle with the anchor locker hatch. Untie a small line and drop the anchor, that fast.

Edited by - on

PCP777
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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 14:51:43

Well, I am going to anchor tonight. We shall see how it goes.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 14:56:58

Which anchor roller are you using? Catalina Direct has a nice looking one, but it isn't that cheap and installation is more of a hassle. Windline and Sea-Dog seem to have many potential options, but I don't know which one is a best fit. Sea-Dog ones are fairly inexpensive.

If this would fit it looks very nice and would be a little over $100:
http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/2184-bow-roller-long

Or the stamped stainless version is quite a bit cheaper.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 15:27:58

We've got the [url="https://windline.com/index.php?act=viewdetails&mod=101"]Windline AR-3[/url] on SL. I think I paid about $60 for it. I don't know how well it'd fit on your C-25, but here's a picture of what ours looks like installed.

Had to reach my hand up through the little access port to get the nuts and fender washers on the ends of the bolts. Not easy, it was like wearing the boat as a bracelet, a tight one.

I had to grind down the two rear the fender washers so they'd all lay flat on the roller flange. It's pretty tight between the uprights. Points to the first person who can point out my boneheaded move when I installed this.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 15:55:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If this would fit it looks very nice and would be a little over $100:
http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/2184-bow-roller-long<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The problem I see with that one is, that depending on what type of anchor you are using, it might not rest well, or flat, on the roller.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 16:21:37

What I have is this Wideline URM-2. A 13# Danforth fits in it nicely. I've had this laying around for years so if I can use it I would only need some bolts. Looks like the same one DavyJ has.

URM-2

Small Anchor Roller Mount

Features:

For Fortress anchors through FX-23 and Danforth to 13Ibs.
Bail holds line up to 1" diameter and chain up to 3/8"
Flared mounting tips help eliminate chafe
Ideal for small boats

Overall Length 15.5"
Outside Channel Width: 2"
Inside Channel Width: 1.75"
Replacement Wheel: W-25
Replacement Bail: BL02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Points to the first person who can point out my boneheaded move when I installed this.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You can't remove your shackle.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If this would fit it looks very nice and would be a little over $100:
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It has to be long enough so the flukes don't hit the boat when it is fully retracted in the mount. Look at DavyJ's photo and you will understand.

Edited by - islander on 06/01/2012 16:46:57

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 17:01:01

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm looking at a tiny pic on my cell phone, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you put it on the wrong side. If you put it on the other side, you'd have less interference with the trailer ladder.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 18:14:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What I have is this Wideline URM-2. A 13# Danforth fits in it nicely. I've had this laying around for years so if I can use it I would only need some bolts. Looks like the same one DavyJ has.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When I got home I took a look and that looks like the one. The only difference is I must have been distrustful of the three bolt holes and drilled another, closer to the roller.....

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 18:18:47

Nope, Scott wins. I managed to capture my snap shackle with the bow roller. Doesn't keep it from still trying to undo itself. When we got back from our last sail I noticed it had come completely undone (but still captured and still retaining the sail grommet). Fortunately about the worst that could happen is the tack of the sail would become loose. Next time I'm out at the boat I intend to mouse the pin to the shackle with stainless wire so it can't do that again.

Once I realized what I'd done, I was going to fix it, then I remembered how much work it'd been to get the bow roller attached in the first place & decided to just live with it.

The end of the roller isn't as near to the trailer ladder as it appears and doesn't interfere.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/01/2012 18:20:28

Tradewind
Admiral

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531 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 18:47:05

I have the AR-3, not installed yet, it's a project for this summer.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 18:53:12

I can win this but never any luck with the lottery. The reason I zeroed in on the snap shackle is that I have one in the same place for my drifter and in running the possible problems that the anchor roller might cause through my head, The shackle was one of them. Looks like had you just flipped the shackle so the pin would screw in from the other side the problem would have been solved.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 19:15:52

Yep, that's exactly right. I've thought about simply cutting the pin with a die grinder and seeing if I can find a replacement pin, but really it works just fine as it is, I just can't take it off. Plus I think the pin might be captive, which means I can't get it out anyway. I have no plans to try to fix it other than mousing the pin to the shackle.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/01/2012 19:16:50

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 19:22:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Nope, Scott wins...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I didn't see his message when I wrote mine (it takes a long time to type on my phone), so when I got home and looked at the pic I immediately noticed the shackle problem. I couldn't even tell there was a shackle on my phone.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Next time I'm out at the boat I intend to mouse the pin to the shackle with stainless wire so it can't do that again.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Another option could be plastic wire strap - much easier to apply, and can be removed if you want to. I'd use black for superior UV resistance. But since this is really permanent, it might be worth the bother to do the wire like you mentioned.

I have one shackle wired with seizing wire (a total pain to do), and several others on anchors done with the plastic straps (a no-brainer, since they're inside lockers with no UV exposure).

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 19:40:15

Make sure the roller has a pin to keep the rode from jumping out and taking out the pulpit.

Sten

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2012 : 07:19:17

Before I put the roller on I'm going to test the theory of having the anchor rode centered by attaching a spare dock line to the anchor rode about 3-4ft out in front of the boat with a rolling hitch and bringing that line back to the opposite cleat forming a bridal and centering the anchor rode. I think this should work as a test.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2012 : 07:47:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Before I put the roller on I'm going to test the theory of having the anchor rode centered by attaching a spare dock line to the anchor rode about 3-4ft out in front of the boat with a rolling hitch and bringing that line back to the opposite cleat forming a bridal and centering the anchor rode. I think this should work as a test.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A bridle will better center the point of force, and will also provide some self-correcting force (pulling on the opposing cleat then the boat starts to hunt). So you may see some improvement.

But the fundamental issue here, as mentioned in the linked article, is a hydrodynamic/aerodynamic instability created by the fact that the center of aerodynamic resistance (windage of the freeboard, especially on the bow) is forward of the center of hydrodynamic resistance (the keel). This creates an instability that causes undamped oscillations. Once the boat starts to hunt, a further instability is caused by the Bernoulli effect of the wind accelerating past the exposed freeboard. The result can be pretty severe hunting for small boats that have less inertia than larger boats.

That's why a riding sail (or small mizzen on a ketch rig) is so helpful - because it moves the center of aerodynamic resistance behind the keel, eliminating the instability.

That's also why the article suggested anchoring from the stern - because it will move the center of aerodynamic drag behind the center of hydrodynamic drag (relative to the anchor point).

So while it may help a little to use a bridle or make other adjustments to center the rode's tension relative to the boat, it may not completely eliminate it.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/02/2012 07:53:52

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