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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/04/2012 : 10:54:31

Since I shared this story on another forum, and it's been a few weeks now, I'll share it here with you guys:

I haven't felt the need to discuss this on any sailing forums I haunt, but I have in great depth with my sailing coach.

In my year and a half of sailing, I have had a good experience every time I've been out. Some better than others of course, but always a good time. That changed 3 weekends ago. It was the first time sailing actually scared me.

The winds were forecast to be 10-15 kts and not nearly as gusty as previous days. I set sail across the lake, good clip, moderate heel, all was going well.

Then, the wind decided it had no idea what to do. It would go from a good steady breeze to nothing...stalled...then back to a breeze with small puffs. Then the wind would radically change direction, so everything was off and I'm trimming again. The wind would stop and even come from behind. It was very difficult sailing as I just could not get on anything steady, to sit back and relax.

Then it happened. Suddenly, out of nowhere, I got hit with a puff stronger BY FAR than anything else I'd encountered so far that day. The boat heeled over violently. Everything was creaking and groaning and the base of my stanchions hit the water. For the first time ever, I felt like I might actually be thrown from the boat. I struggled to hold on, the weather helm was impossible. She was going to round up and there was nothing I could do about it. As she turned the bow dug in making the turn harder and the heel more. Terrified I just held on, eased the tiller and let her do her thing. She faced the wind, uprighted and the sails luffed violently. It was so loud. As soon as it started, it was over.

Now, I recount this able to take time to describe things in hindsight. In reality, it all happened in just a matter of seconds.

I sat there in shock, quite frightened. It was like being in a car accident, where you didn't get hurt but are quite taken by it. I regained my composure and while pointing into the wind, doused and secured the main, leaving the jib to sail by. I didn't cleat the jib, but had 4 wraps around the winch and the bight in my hand, so I could "play" the sail in these crazy conditions. I sailed for a few more hours, but during the 3rd becalming (each lasting 20-30 minutes) I gave it up and just drifted in the boat, relaxing and enjoying just being on the water.

I had a nice long chat with my sailing coach about it...and it comes down to two basic things:

1. I failed at situational awareness. Had I been less focused on keeping my trim and heading, coming out of a stall and picking up speed...if I had just looked around, maybe I would have seen that puff coming so I would have had time to ease the main and jib.

2. I got "punched". It happens to everyone. Now it's happened to me. Deal with it. Learn from it.

Scott

When we left, we had just enough fuel to make it to San Juan. And now... we are out of fuel!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 11:27:23

When "it " hits dump the main sheet first. Next dump the headsail. It is a good thing when a boat rounds up, you should not fight a roundup from a broach. Once in irons, reconnoiter quickly to look for safety issues. Be ready for the next violent wind shift... from any direction.

I have "fallen" from the high side to the low side of the cockpit and hurt my wrist. Big wind is great fun on a C 25 because they are so robust if maintained. Learn to hang on and have fun. Remember, wind will often lift you higher and higher and then bam you are backwinded from 90*, be ready and watch the wind.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 11:29:45

Interesting - and i tend to agree with your coach.

Usually when the wind dies or is finicky, I take it as a warning that front is about to hit, or that there is going to be a radical change in temperature, wind direction, pressure, something. That lull is a warning. Sometimes it lasts for days, sometimes for seconds, but usually it means things are about to change. If you can see the change (clouds, a shearline on the water, other boats) you have a chance to prepare for it. If not, your best bet is a light hand on teh controls. better to have a sail flog than to have things go dramatically wwrong.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 11:37:12

I had no time to react to that one Frank. I usually handle puffs by pinching or easing the main....more pinching than easing. I've dealt with some pretty strong days too.

That beast hit me from almost nothing.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 12:20:28

When first learned to sail, my instructor would often say something like: "If you feel like you're out of control -- let go!" What he meant, of course, was to dump the main, let go of the tiller and then let fly the headsail and let the boat take over. That's why I always sail with the mainsheet in my hand or at least sitting on my lap and I'm certain that the jib sheet isn't a tangled mess. It's also why always wearing a PFD is important.

I'm glad this was just a learning experience for you. That which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. OBTW, if you shave your head the new gray hairs you've recently acquired won't show as badly and Clorox works on the drawers.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/04/2012 12:23:01

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 12:49:26

I've been out in a calm with no forward motion when you could see the cats paw coming at you across the flat water .. pretty scary..

You better not be puttin any more holes in that boat..

But just wait.. there's more to come.. a downwind run when the seas are up so high you damn near get knocked down when you try to turn back up..

or get broached..

Fuuunnnn..... but She will come back up.. just hold on...

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 12:54:49

Wanna feel safer on your boat.. GO rent a Hobie on a windy day!!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 13:16:03

Joe,

Two Wednesday's ago I was racing on the C-27. Watched Macgregor 26 lose his rig, mast snapped right at the spreaders. Boat started circling out of control. On the every next tack our carbon fiber tiller exploded right at the base and WE went out of control. It was gnarly.

Aside from sheeting out to ease the weather helm I also will work on running down wind to calm things down. That's what I did on the C-27, I grabbed the nub of tiller that was left by two hands and ran down wind until we could get things more under control.

Prospector is right, a lull like that many times is a harbinger of a major change in wind direction or strength.

Oh and it is pretty common for me to wash the windows, so to speak. I've even shipped water into the cockpit a couple times on my C-25.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 13:33:07

I think I'm still a newb, but I always keep a look out for the water around me. It's my indicator of things to come.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 13:44:02

Peter - you mean you can sail without washing the windows? How else do you check for leaks?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 14:18:29

I remember the PO who gave me a quick lesson in sailing pointed to the mainsheet and said, If you get in over your head, That's the panic button. Your one adventure sounds like my entire first year! Scared the c#&p out of Sara. OK myself a little bit...OK a lot too.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 14:22:55

Last weekend, the wind was so heavy that I couldn't uncleat the mainsheet. Took two hands to lift it out of the camcleat. That's with a 4:1.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 14:40:24

No green water in the cockpit? You haven't been sailing long enough!

(And keep the dumpster latched shut.)

What was the sky like that day? Clouds can tell you a lot about what might happen in a few minutes, and the water surface tells you what's gonna happen in a few seconds. Both are important information. Sometimes those sudden shifts and changes on sunny days are caused by innocent-looking, puffy cumulus clouds that cause convection changes as the drift by. A nearby up-draft from the heated land may be accompanied by a down-draft under a big cloud, causing chaotic winds at the surface. I was caught in a downward "micro-burst" once--my boom was literally thrashing and the jib was being alternately back-winded until I released it.

They say sailing is hours of boredom punctuated my seconds of stark terror... Now you can say that!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 18:29:19

Back in the '70's I had a Hobie 16. I was sailing on Canyon Lake by myself and it was really windy. I was flying a hull for a mile or more at a time out in the main part of the lake off Canyon Lake Park.

I don't remember whether it was a front or a downburst from a thunderstorm but all of a sudden the wind switched directions by close to 180 degrees and jumped up to around 30 but was extremely variable.

As Islander stated I hit the panic button and released all the sheets. As the winds shifted back and forth that Hobie would go from almost dead stopped to 15+ in about 5 seconds and then stop again. I was terrifed!

I eventually ended up on the rocks on the south side of the lake in an area somewhat protected from the wind holding the boat off the rocks. After about 30 minutes things calmed down and I went back to the ramp and called it a day.

Found out later 5 or 6 small boats racing out in front of what is now LCYC had their masts snapped like toothpicks and several other boats damaged.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 18:36:54

Ray brings up an excellent point about renting a Hobie Cat for a few hours. I learned to sail on a Sailfish - part of the training was to capsize (no, I'm not suggesting to try to capsize your C25,) swim around to the dagger board, step on the dagger board and right the boat. In retrospect this was an excellent learning exercise and better prepared me for what I write next.

Several years ago my son and I were on our C22. Though it was a windy day we still got surprised by a big gust. In the blink of an eye we had (green

) water coming over the coaming. My son was standing on what is normally the vertical surface of the cockpit seat and I was kneeling on the hull. I calmly told him to release the main sheet - which he did - and we righted immediately (and commenced bailing

) He didn't go sailing again for a couple-three years until we purchased a C25. This experience is etched in my mind and I can remember it in great detail.

I understand the lack of response time and yeah you need to be scanning for wind - regularly. Sailing is a life long learning experience. You've learned from this experience and you will be a better sailor because of it.

Get back in the saddle

Edited by - OJ on 06/04/2012 19:09:02

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 19:20:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 Last weekend, the wind was so heavy that I couldn't uncleat the mainsheet. Took two hands to lift it out of the camcleat. That's with a 4:1.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I got used to stepping on the mainsheet to uncleat because cleat faces down. Over the winter I reversed to pull-up-to-release after bruising knuckles in lighter wind.

Edited by - rrick on 06/04/2012 19:48:30

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2012 : 19:35:34

I've been in some pretty blustery conditions....and I've heeled the boat over pretty good...I don't like to sail that way because the weather helm is very strong and the boat slows down. I like to spill or pinch to keep a good balance of heel and boat speed. Dragging the lifelines through the water isn't the optimal sailing condition, speed and handling wise, for these boats.....at least it seems that way to me.

Normally I see 'em coming and am prepared.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What was the sky like that day?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We had a low pressure system clearing the area to the east and a high building in from the southwest. The strong north winds from the backside of the low had given way to the prevailing southwesterlies we have around here. Skies were clear/blue/22 with maybe an occasional fair weather cumulous. Temp/humidity was stunning for this time of year on the back of that low. By the end of the day, Gulf moisture had arrived with the prevailing winds and the high pressure.

The previous 2 days had seen 25-30 steady with gusts to 40. The day before was 15-20 with gusts to 35. This day was "forecast" as 12 to 15 with gusts "not nearly as strong"....

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 03:33:07

I mentioned this in some other recent posting. Last summer I was out on what was a relatively calm day and I was sailing with my 150 genoa fully unfurled waiting for a sightseeing boat to turn into the Washington Channel from the Potomac before I then headed to my marina. I normally do check out clouds, keep an eye on water/white caps forming, etc but again it was basically a 5-10 mph day with no gusts and no clouds to speak of when all of a sudden the wind picked up to well over 30mph...maybe 40+ mph. It was crazy out there and I could in no way control the sails but reacted pretty quick to spilling the wind out of the sails letting them out but I was also trying to be mindful of not allowing them to flap so much that they would be ripped to shreds. But when the wind initially hit, the sails condition was the least thing on my mind for the moment. My first actions were obviously survival/recovering from being violently thrown to one side but reacted quick enough that I did not take water into the cockpit. I looked up at the sky and then noticed 2 small dark clouds had snuck up on me from my stern and they were causing the problem. There was no way I could take in my genoa at the moment but figured if I headed away from the clouds, north on the Potomac, then I would get out of the stew or the worst of it at least and that was what did the trick. I then furled the Genoa and decided to take down my main as the getting was good since there were a few clouds in the distance that would eventually move in and not wanting to chance a repeat of the freak wind that had resulted from these small pesky clouds that almost did me in.

As it turned out, this one event resulted in ripping a 4" strip off the Dacron UV cover on my Genoa.

Perhaps, you may recall reading in the newspaper about the workers on the scaffolds attached to the Washington Monument. The newspapers in our area had photos of 1 or 2 guys hanging from lines that were blown away from the monument perhaps 40-50 feet out until the wind settled down. No one was hurt but that was the day I was out sailing.

Agree with OJ's posting. If you have sailed in small sailboats, most are prepared or have been thru plenty of experiences with having to react quick and spill the wind out of the sails. One can still be caught off guard by a sudden change in weather. They say you have to have respect for the sea but same goes for the wind and weather conditions in general.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/05/2012 03:44:05

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 06:04:55

I've experienced knockdowns on a few occasions, and like OJ mentioned, I found myself standing on the vertical area of the coaming with both hands hanging on to the lifelines over my head. It usually happens so fast that I don't have time to release the main, I just immediately let go to the tiller and hang on. Having the spreader tip so near the water is truly a zen like experience. The first time it happens it'll scare the $H!T out of you, but subsequent knockdowns aren't nearly as traumatizing.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 06:54:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 The first time it happens it'll scare the $H!T out of you, but subsequent knockdowns aren't nearly as traumatizing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's exactly what my coach told me....next time I get knocked down, and eventually it will happen again, if Its so fast I can't spill that it won't be as scary because you know the boat will just round up, like it's designed to do.

I knew the boat would round up...I just never had it happen before. I've always been able to avoid it by spilling or tremendous effort on the tiller to ride through it heeld over.

The crux of my trauma on this event....it's the first and only time I've lost control of my boat. That upset me, along with the shock of the event itself. I think that's why I waited a few weeks to post about it....losing control of my boat...I was also quite embarrassed about it. I've since reconciled that part of it though.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/05/2012 06:54:51

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 08:53:01

Sometimes you won't get any warning at all, like when a downburst hits (not sure if that's the right term - it's a near vertical downward blast of wind that seems to come out of nowhere). That happened to one of our local very experienced sailors on his S2-7.9. It broke his mast! He said it was so sudden that he had no time to react, just hang on.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:57:08

Hopefully you learned a from this incident how incredibly tough your C-25 is. I haven't been knocked down but have been out in some SERIOUS wind and was pleasantly surprised the first few times at how well my boat took care of me

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 16:50:38

FWIW

http://smallcraftadvisor.com/sca-seaworthiness-test

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 07:33:33

Interesting.....I got a 157 "above-average seaworthiness".

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 09:49:13

It's great to hear all these "oh s**t" stories. I've got a couple myself. A couple years ago we lost the mast on our 22 due to a random wind puff and a derelict turnbuckle. And just the other night we got caught by an extremely fast moving northbound front. It was the fastest weather I've ever seen. One minute we're on a beam reach with a steady 20mph wind from the east. Then all the sudden the wind dies and nails us from the port. We didn't have time to reef and it trashed the main. We took quite a bit of hail and made it in under motor power. Thanks to Frank's advice, I got the 8hp instead of the 5.
Live and learn I guess...

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2012 : 10:11:26

That article reminded me of another project - adding through-transom scuppers to my through-cockpit scuppers. I've got the stuff (tubing, hole saw, caulking) but just little motivation to work on the boat instead of going sailing!

Scored a 179 - " Very seaworthy for her design purposes"

Edited by - on

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