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Steaming Light Height

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:16:55

Anyone know the height of the deck/steaming light as measured from the bottom of the mast? My steaming light is intermittent and I don't feel like dropping the mast to trouble shoot.

I know this is going to cause a controversy but I'm thinking about strapping a step ladder to the mast and taking a look.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:44:55

I've used a short step ladder strapped to my mast before. It's a bit scary, but the ladder never moved. I made certain to stay very centered between the legs. I was trying to get to mast lifting webbing that I'd stupidly wrapped around the mast above the mast dogs instead of below them. Didn't want to drop the mast again, so the ladder seemed expeditious.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:49:55

I would guess it's half way up, or 14 feet.

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OLarryR
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3462 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 03:20:50

Not sure of the exact height but I figure it is approximately halfway up the 28' (SR) or 30' (TR) mast.

I bought a mast mate a couple of years ago. It is obviously a lot more expensive than tying up a ladder to the mast but it is made for climbing up the mast and works well - It also has a safety harness that is for looping around the mast and also serves to hold a ditty bag. Instead of those rubber spreader boots, I have those wheels that are attached to the stays just below the spreader but one of my wheels drooped down about 2'. A couple of months ago, I hooked up my mast mate to the mast groove and hoisted it up using the halyard. After you get used to it, going up the mast was not all that hard using the mast mate and I was able to reposition that wheel back up at the spreader height. I originally got the mast mate just in case I had to change out one of those bulbs in the steaming/deck light combo fixture.

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Joe Diver
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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 05:30:28

I've considered the ladder approach as well. I would, in addition to strapping it, also make sure I have a buddy there to hold it, and be available should anything go wrong.

I'm not very confident going up the mast in a bosuns chair or similar device. I'm a big dude, kinda heavy. (6'4, 250) I carry my weight well, but weight is weight.

I guess you would think the rig could take the weight....considering the forces put on it while sailing in boisterous conditions....but that weight is distributed throughout the design range of the rig.

The only time I've ever sent someone up my mast was Eddy's son Alex, to free a stuck/broken slug....but he was all of 90# maybe.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/21/2012 05:32:03

redviking
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Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 05:43:57

I've done it, but with a twist. Climbed the ladder while wearing a bosuns chair. Had the halyard and backup halyard cleated and tied off, made me a lot more comfortable.

You'll need time and your hands free. The rigging can handle it or at least it should be able to handle it. If it can't, you have a bigger problem.

sten

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 12:51:17

I've accessed it with a 6' step ladder tied to the mast. Not real comfortable but I did.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 13:32:48

Tie to the mast and secure the legs to stanchion bases. I secure myself to the mast.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 13:44:29

My mast is down right now. If I remember I can measure for you tomorrow.

For getting up there, I have used:

crane
bosun's chair on a halyard
shimmying up the mast to the spreaders

Not that I recommend these.

If you drop teh mast forward, the light will end up just past teh bow pulpit IIRC.

Edited by - on

tweeet65
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 14:37:16

14' on my c25 std rig.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4303 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 18:36:49

Thanks everyone! I've got a 10' step ladder that should work OK. If not I guess I'll just turn on the deck light instead when motoring. Maybe not totally legal but I should definitely be easy to spot.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 18:40:14

A friend loaned me his 16' ladder and I climbed up to change the bulb and inspect the lower stay tangs. Before going up I secured the ladder's legs to the mast near the bottom and about half way up. I placed several sheets of corrugated cardboard under the ladder's feet to prevent scratching the cabin top and they dug in pretty well. I tied the boat pretty tightly to the dock too. Once I was up I tied the halyard around my waist.
He held the ladder in place and I was able to work quite comfortably.
I also did some calculations on the physics of going all the way up. The moment of my center of gravity at my weight at a height of 25 feet exceeded the moment of the 1700# keel at 3 feet below waterline. That means that if I went all the way up, the boat would easily heel by 90 degrees. Don't think I'll be doing that any time soon.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 05:30:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The moment of my center of gravity at my weight at a height of 25 feet exceeded the moment of the 1700# keel at 3 feet below waterline. That means that if I went all the way up, the boat would easily heel by 90 degrees. Don't think I'll be doing that any time soon.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So then it really wouldn't matter what method you use to climb to the top, The boat would heel over?

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Prospector
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Canada
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 07:57:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The moment of my center of gravity at my weight at a height of 25 feet exceeded the moment of the 1700# keel at 3 feet below waterline. That means that if I went all the way up, the boat would easily heel by 90 degrees. Don't think I'll be doing that any time soon.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So then it really wouldn't matter what method you use to climb to the top, The boat would heel over?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I can tell you from experience that at 160-ish lbs, I can be hoisted to the masthead without the boat falling over. YMMV.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 22:32:54

Do the math for me: 220# x 25' = 5500 and 1700# x 3' = 5100. Hmmm - looks like I'd better lose some weight!

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 04:21:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Do the math for me: 220# x 25' = 5500 and 1700# x 3' = 5100. Hmmm - looks like I'd better lose some weight!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Does that mean, max weight to lift aloft is 204#?

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islander
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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 06:07:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Does that mean, max weight to lift aloft is 204#?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Is that the magic number? If it is then at 185# I'm safe.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 06:22:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Does that mean, max weight to lift aloft is 204#?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Is that the magic number? If it is then at 185# I'm safe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd suggest you give a little more margin for error. First, I don't think all the ballast is 3' below (though not that familiar with teh C25), so it will lose some effectiveness. Also, don't forget about our friend Archimedes, so you'll have to reduce the keel's weight from your calculation by 9% (if lead) to 13% (if steel).

Based on these calculations, it seems that one option (if you have a few empty slips next to you) might be to extend your halyard to a cleat about 35' abeam of your boat, and pull the mast down to chest height. Do so at your own risk, though - don't blame me if you sink your boat.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NOT DONE THIS MYSELF. I AM ONLY SUGGESTING THAT THE CALCULATIONS WOULD INDICATE THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE. MY FORMAL, COMPLETELY SERIOUS SUGGESTION IS TO NOT TRY THIS MANEUVER

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/23/2012 07:35:39

Voyager
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5368 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 07:25:31

Rick
I assume you've done this maneuver yourself. Further, I assume the boat did not lean over without a great deal of tugging. Would you say that it would be a one-person or two-person job?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 07:34:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Rick
I assume you've done this maneuver yourself. Further, I assume the boat did not lean over without a great deal of tugging. Would you say that it would be a one-person or two-person job?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Your assumption is incorrect. I have never done this myself, nor am I willing to try it. When I wrote "it seems that one option might be..." I meant that the calculation indicates that this might be possible, with no suggestion that I have done this, or that anyone should actually try it.

For actual experience from someone who has done this, you might check Sailnet, where I recall reading that someone said they had done this. And as they say, if you read it on the Internet, it must be true.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 08:09:43

OK, I'll be the wet blanket. I've known two people (parents of friends) around your age who fell off of ladders at their homes (not strapped to a floating boat's mast). Both suffered injuries that impacted them, or will impact them, for the rest of their lives. People our age don't heal like young people.

It's a 25' boat. Drop the mast or use proper mast climbing tools or hire a skilled yard person to do it or use some cleverness (Got a CDI furler? Use the spare jib halyard to hoist a light, etc.)

Be safe.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 09:15:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 OK, I'll be the wet blanket. I've known two people (parents of friends) around your age who fell off of ladders at their homes (not strapped to a floating boat's mast). Both suffered injuries that impacted them, or will impact them, for the rest of their lives. People our age don't heal like young people.

It's a 25' boat. Drop the mast or use proper mast climbing tools or hire a skilled yard person to do it or use some cleverness (Got a CDI furler? Use the spare jib halyard to hoist a light, etc.)

Be safe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Awww man!! You take all the fun out of everything. Where's that sense of adventure? It's only 14' - 15' to the deck or 20' to the water from the mast light! It's not THAT far!

Actually, pulling the boat over by the mast might be a viable alternative. Most on this site have seen the video of the boat leaning to one side while going under a bridge with a large bag filled with water.

There are plenty of empty slips in a row at my marina. I MIGHT (probably not) give it a try. One could pull the boat over part way to a point where you could reach the mast light while on a step ladder safely on the dock.

Sounds like you might only have to put a little over 200#'s of force on the mast? Seems like the boat and rigging should be able to handle loads that light.

Just make sure you don't get any part of your body over the mast or rigging. If something lets go you don't want to become a projectile!

Anyway, turns out my ladder was only 6' instead of 10' so I guess for now I'm safe.

For the record, I'm not suggesting anyone try this. I'd suggest you don't!!! If you do you do so at your own risk!

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 11:17:52

When I kept my San Juan 21 on Lake Washington, there were a couple of Thunderbirds in the row on the other side of my dock. One of the owners was a serious racer who was in his early 70's. What he'd do before each race was scrub the bottom of the boat by pulling the mast way over as has been described here. He'd use a 4:1 block & tackle he'd rig to the main halyard, tie off the boat at an angle in his slip so the mast would be drawn down above the walk way, attach the other end to a dock cleat, and simply pull his boat over. Then go scrub the side of the boat left exposed. Once done with that side, re-rig for the other side, and pull it over again to scrub the last side. He did all this in about half an hour, maybe 40 minutes, by himself. I saw him do it several times.

T-birds are lighter boats than ours, but I think it could be done.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 05:53:13

After pulling the boat over, (Man I would love to see that one) Don't forget to put the water balloon on the end when you let her go.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 06:33:50

Oh man, that is a brilliant idea for getting a little easier access to the lower edges of the hull for buffing and waxing it. I wouldn't need to lean it much, just 5-10 degrees.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/24/2012 : 07:22:29

Is this a hijack or what? Very helpful info to a lot of folks but a major hijack. Apologies Gary!

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