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Chartering a C36 in Rock Hall

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TakeFive
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Initially Posted - 05/17/2012 : 05:50:46

The other day I learned that my wife is not needed to chaperone my youngest son's church trip next month, so she suddenly has a week of unplanned free time. I've been wanting to charter ever since getting my C250 2 years ago, so this looks like a great opportunity. I spoke to Haven Charters in Rock Hall, MD, and am sending them a deposit check today for one of their Catalina 36's (smallest boat they have available that week).

I'd appreciate any advice that any of you can provide. We are lacking experience in a couple of areas, including inboard diesel and anchoring experience, so if any of you have pointers to offer that would be great.

There's also an advice thread [url="http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/87440-chartering-out-rock-hall-advice-please.html"]over on Sailnet[/url], along with the inevitable debates that always rage over there.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/17/2012 05:59:37

Tradewind
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:05:25

I know a charter captain that works for beer. (lol)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:51:05

Rick, I agree completely with all the people who say you probably won't have any trouble sailing a much bigger boat. The problem is that you won't always be sailing it. When you pull into a marina, you will need to be able to maneuver the diesel powered, fixed screw boat under power, and that is not at all similar to maneuvering an outboard-powered boat. It isn't especially difficult to do, but you have to learn the speciric techniques that must be used.

I'm going to guess that the charter company will require you to go out with a checkout skipper for about an hour, to assure them that you know how to operate the boat under power. During that time, the checkout skipper will teach you how to rotate the boat under power within the kind of tight spaces that you often experience in marinas. That is easy to learn. If the checkout skipper doesn't show you how to back the boat into a slip, you should ask him to do so. If you can rotate a boat in a tight space and back into a slip, those two skills will enable you to maneuver the boat in most of the situations that you are likely to encounter. When I first began to charter, I asked a checkout skipper to show me how to back the boat into a slip, and gave him a generous gratuity for doing so, and it was probably the cheapest and most valuable lesson I ever learned. Chartering isn't just a wonderful sailing experience; it can also be a great learning experience, if you make the most of it.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 07:40:49

Before I went to Florida for a conference/vacation several years ago, knowing we were going to charter a sailboat for the vacation part, I arranged with a local captain here to give us some lessons. We spent close to an hour backing his inboard Hunter 28 around the marina, back and forth, in and out of the slip 4-5 times. It was well worth the exercise.
Make sure they show you how to clean the cooling water strainer for the engine, show you where all of the thru-hull seacocks are located, safety equipment, etc.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 08:10:24

You'll love the spaces above and below, the big side-decks, the smooth ride... (Could be trouble!

) As Steve says, maneuvering is different--especially in reverse, where the rudder does not deflect the thrust, and steerage is limited until you have some way. (...although you can learn to use the prop-walk to push the stern around somewhat). Just remember--you're maneuvering and stopping three+ times the mass. (Don't let your wife try to stop the boat!) On the other hand, the wind won't push you around nearly as much near a dock.

Sounds like fun--I love Maryland's Eastern Shore!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/17/2012 08:11:31

pfduffy
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 08:32:04

I have nothing to add to this conversation but my jealousy!

Edited by - on

JimGo
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 09:42:42

I was thinking the same thing, Pat.

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JohnP
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 10:29:11

Rick,

Will you be out on the Bay between Wednesday, June 13th and Tuesday, June 19th? That is the time the tall ships will be plying the waters of the northern Chesapeake for the 2ooth anniversary of the start of the War of 1812.

If you'll be there I'd be happy to meet up at some spot or other - anchorage, harbor, marina?

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 10:55:53

Anchoring is simple just about anywhere on the Chesapeake Bay, because the bottom is usually mud (M on the chart), or else grass (G), or shells (Sh). Not much of the latter two. The depth nearly everywhere is less than 40 feet, often 15-30 feet, except in some river channels or the main channel in the northern Bay, and anchoring is straightforward in those shallow depths. Anchoring under normal wind conditions (0-15 knots) requires a simple setting of the anchor by backing down on the rode. In my C-25, I usually drift downwind to set the anchor, unless it will be a stormy night. Under high wind conditions, I set it more carefully with the outboard. The Haven Charter folks should be able to give you good tips on how to use the diesel to set whatever anchor the C-36 has into a mud bottom.

Will they supply you with charts on the boat? Does your gps cover these charts, too? You certainly need to read the charts to sail safely around here, because the muddy shoals get you when you don't!

Do you have a cruising guide for the Chesapeake? I have two copies of one good guide, and I could lend you the extra one if you like; I could mail it to you this week. There are lots of interesting places to go - historic towns, restaurants, quiet anchorages, museums, fishing spots. June is usually good for swimming, too, if it has not got muddy from a recent rain.

Let me know if you'd like the cruising guide.

Edited by - on

JimGo
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 13:29:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 Do you have a cruising guide for the Chesapeake? I have two copies of one good guide, and I could lend you the extra one if you like; I could mail it to you this week. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is yet another excellent example of why I keep coming back here.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 20:00:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 ...Do you have a cruising guide for the Chesapeake? I have two copies of one good guide, and I could lend you the extra one if you like; I could mail it to you this week...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks a bunch for the offer, but I just received the Chesapeake Bay Magazine Guide from Amazon today. I'm just starting to read it (focusing first on the writeup of how to avoid crab pots, one thing that will be new to me). I may post some questions here as I go through the book.

The charter company says that the boat has charts, as well as a chart plotter and autopilot. But because I don't want to rely on unfamiliar tech toys, I plan to also bring several nav devices of my own - my Garmin Oregon handheld, handheld anemometer/electronic compass for old fashioned DR navigation, Netbook with OpenCPN and GPS dongle, and Nook Color with nav software. The latter two use downloaded NOAA charts which I will update prior to leaving. I'll be plotting a bunch of planned routes marking hurricane holes ahead of time, and will download the routes into the Garmin. I'll even bring my bicycle handlebar mount and attach the Oregon to the binnacle so I don't have to risk dropping it overboard. I'll also take the Oregon to bed with me with the anchor alarm turned on.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 03:12:09

You are right about watching out for those crab pots ! I do not have to contend with them up in my area. But JohnP and I have gone sailing 2-3 times and I recall when he sat back while I sailed his boat toward home and there was an area we passed thru which was a crab pot swalom course. I was surprised we did not get tangled up with one.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/18/2012 03:14:37

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 19:35:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...When you pull into a marina, you will need to be able to maneuver the diesel powered, fixed screw boat under power, and that is not at all similar to maneuvering an outboard-powered boat. It isn't especially difficult to do, but you have to learn the speciric techniques that must be used.

I'm going to guess that the charter company will require you to go out with a checkout skipper for about an hour, to assure them that you know how to operate the boat under power. During that time, the checkout skipper will teach you how to rotate the boat under power within the kind of tight spaces that you often experience in marinas. That is easy to learn. If the checkout skipper doesn't show you how to back the boat into a slip, you should ask him to do so. If you can rotate a boat in a tight space and back into a slip, those two skills will enable you to maneuver the boat in most of the situations that you are likely to encounter...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve,

Maneuvering at slow speeds with an inboard will be new to me, and doing it with such a heavy boat will also be very different. I do have some experience (from when I was a kid) with using prop walk in forward docking. We had a 35' aluminum Kings Craft houseboat (really cool design with a V-bottom and 12" deep hollow keel that went the length of the boat). My father taught me how to dock it by approaching the port outer piling of a starboard slip at a 45 degree angle, and when we were about 10' away, suddenly throw her into reverse. Prop walk would turn the boat the entire 45° in one thrust, perfectly aligned with the slip, and we could then just gently go forward into the slip. The thing turned on a dime without even touching the wheel, which was locked straight. To bystanders (who often looked alarmed to see us heading for a piling) it appeared to maneuver like a twin screw boat, but it actually had only a single 225 hp Chrysler (which could get her on a plane up to 32 knots because the boat was so light).

This picture of the charter boat shows her docked stern-in in slip 46 of the blue dock:

<center>

</center>

If you look at the slip layout:

<center>

</center>

...the slip looks to be the perfect orientation to bring the boat forward through the fairway, turn about 45° away from the slip, and then use prop walk in reverse to swing the stern to port. Jockey back and forth with small bursts until the boat lines up with the slip, then proceed back slowly enough that prop walk is minimized. I read on another thread somewhere - can't find it right now - that each reverse burst turns the boat around 10°, so it should take several bursts, each one followed by gentle forward to stop the boat's reverse momentum.

I read on that same thread that the turning maneuver should be done with the rudder hard to starboard, because the prop wash against the rudder in forward will bring the stern to port, but the rudder position will have little effect in reverse (prop wash goes away from the rudder), and prop walk will also move the stern to port in reverse. So rotating around the keel counterclockwise merely becomes a matter of forward and reverse pulses while the rudder is left hard to starboard.

Is this basically how it works?

What if we go to a different marina where the slip is on the opposite side of the fairway? On our houseboat we would pass the slip, turn around, and approach the outer piling from the direction that prop walk worked best. Is this what I should do backing in a sailboat with slip on the starboard side of the fairway?

I realize that a checkout skipper can teach me this, but the more I think it through ahead of time, the better I will catch on.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/18/2012 20:57:52

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 20:14:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctorIs this basically how it works?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You've got it! Your checkout skipper is going to be impressed.

When you have your check-out, you'll have a chance to practice it under the guidance of the checkout skipper, and that will give you a sense of how the particular boat responds.

One tip I might pass along is that, as long as the prop is turning in reverse, the prop walk will continue to kick the transom to port. Sometimes, however, if the boat is already close enough to the portside piling, and you don't want the transom to continue turning to port, just shift into neutral gear, and let the boat coast backwards. That will stop the prop walk from kicking the transom further to port.

Also, always have boat hooks at the ready whenever docking. If you make a less-than-perfect docking, you can usually salvage it with a boat hook.

Have a good trip!

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/19/2012 : 21:55:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 Anchoring is simple just about anywhere on the Chesapeake Bay, because the bottom is usually mud (M on the chart), or else grass (G), or shells (Sh). Not much of the latter two. The depth nearly everywhere is less than 40 feet, often 15-30 feet, except in some river channels or the main channel in the northern Bay, and anchoring is straightforward in those shallow depths. Anchoring under normal wind conditions (0-15 knots) requires a simple setting of the anchor by backing down on the rode. In my C-25, I usually drift downwind to set the anchor, unless it will be a stormy night. Under high wind conditions, I set it more carefully with the outboard. The Haven Charter folks should be able to give you good tips on how to use the diesel to set whatever anchor the C-36 has into a mud bottom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have watched many a boater both sailors and stinkpotters alike drop the hook and then back down on it only to have it skip along the bottom and not set well if at all. Similar to how moorings get set, drop your hook and play out the chain (hopefully) or the chain and rode to about a 5 to one. Let it grab on it's own. In no wind conditions, 5 seconds of reverse is enough momentum. The just sit back and relax for at least 5-10 minutes. Note your position, etc... After some time has passed, give it some juice in reverse for 10 seconds or so. Just enough to pull the chain or rode taut and verify that the hook is set. Again, backing down is a practice that verifies that the hook is set. For better sleep, let more out for a 7/1 or more if it is gonna blow.

Your GPS anchor alarm may not work down below if it cannot get a clear view of the sky FYI... Have fun!

AnchorSten

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 07:21:28

Sleeping on the boat Sunday night, heading out noon Monday, returning on Friday. Any last-minute advice?

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/22/2012 07:21:58

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 07:27:52

That's all I've got!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/22/2012 07:28:30

Joe Diver
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 08:08:32

I don't have any advice....but the C36 was the boat that got me in to sailing.

You're gonna love this boat.....

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 15:15:11

I just bought a dinghy, so we'll be able to row to shore. I had to make a very quick decision, since I went on Amazon and it gave me 2 minutes to order for Saturday delivery.

After having time to review the other options, I don't think I will have buyer's remorse. This seemed to be the best quality at this price point (by far), with 3-ply construction (nylon mesh between outer vinyl layers) and swiveling oar locks. It will also be useful with my C250, since it will store easily in our limited space. I've held off buying a dinghy so far because we don't do much cruising, but this one was less expensive than renting one for the week from the charter company:

<center>[url="http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Seahawk-II-Boat-Set/dp/B00177J4XO"]

[/url]</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/22/2012 15:18:39

JohnP
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 17:13:50

My last minute advice on the Chesapeake Bay - Have a great time!

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Joe Diver
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 18:38:52

....and take alot of pictures of the boat......

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 21:40:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 ....and take alot of pictures of the boat......
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You can find them on the [url="http://www.havencharters.com/whiteWings.php"]charter company's website[/url].

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
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Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 21:49:33

Well, yeah...I've sailed a C36...and theres tons of pics on the net for them too...but it's better when you post pics of the boat....with people in them...while you're using the boat....under sail, heeled over....chilling in the cockpit, cooking in the galley, sheets/pillows in the berths....you know, "in use" so to speak.

EDIT - WooHoo! Post #1000....and a new title....

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/22/2012 21:50:06

DaveR
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Response Posted - 06/23/2012 : 05:40:33

Well, looking through this topic I can see you've thought this through very well and gotten some excellent advice (what's not to love about this forum?), sounds like you're ready to go!! This is one of those things you'll never forget! Have a great time!

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 20:55:55

Our first day of chartering did not go as planned, but was still a lot of fun. We had hoped to sail north to Worton Creek, with a fallback (depending on wind direction) of going south to Chester River, then up Chester to Corsica to anchor out. The forecasts were calling for scattered thundershowers all day, which had us a little concerned. Later it appeared that a front might move through at 2, so if we got out real fast we might beat it to our destination. We headed out to the Bay and saw black clouds to the north, so we headed south. After 20 min or so, we saw black clouds to the south too. A quick look at Doppler radio on my cell phone showed systems moving through both to the north and south, and more coming our way, so we sailed around awhile and headed back in to our marina. In the end it was a nice 3 hour daysail that got us real familiar with the boat, and gave us a taste of varying conditions, since the wind really did pick up at the end.

I was nervous about docking, since I'd never docked such a large boat, and turning around to come in stern-first can be tricky. But it was a piece of cake! I was able to get the boat turned about 75 degrees to starboard, and used the prop walk to bring the stern around the rest of the way. When I had the boat facing directly out of the slip, our stern was perfectly between the pilings, so I could back right in. This was really beginners luck, because I really had no idea how the boat would pivot and/or slide sideways through the turn.

After we were back at the marina (Haven Harbour), the weather alternated every 15 minutes between beautiful blue skies and scary looking thunderheads (with noticably cool breezes), but everything broke up and there was never any lightning or thunder. But the wind has continued to pick up, around 20kts right now and the rig is howling and shaking the whole boat. (The rig seems a bit looser than my boat.) It really is a good thing that we did not anchor out tonight, since these are not the kinds of conditions for our first overnight anchor experience.

Once back at the marina we had to improvise because we had planned to cook out on the boat's gas grill, but that's not allowed at the dock. The marina has grills, but they're charcoal only. I have a portable gas grill that I often take on our boat for cooking ashore, but it's about the only thing from our boat that I didn't bring along.

So we headed out to the store for some charcoal. Lighting the charcoals in 20kt winds was tricky, but I was able to stick the lighter into the middle of the pile and get a flame going from the inside out.

We brought dinner back to the cockpit and ate while enjoying this view:

<center>

</center>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 05:33:40

Nice job Rhythm Doc, and good decisions!

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