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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

Ok, first 2 sails Friday and Saturday... then Race

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/24/2012 : 05:12:25

Ok, I'll admit the boats still pretty rough. Bottom is rough as a cob, sails are pretty tired. My traveler is, well, functional but questionable. Most lines are good, but I sailed her ANYWAY! hehehe.

Friday night I got winds 7-10mph with gusts to 13. Perfect shakedown winds. Sailed past the dockmaster's son who owns a J22, probably the only time I will, since he was swimming! heheheh. He DID get pictures, which I need to get a copy of. Stood the boat up good a few times, reached 5.8 knots beating upwind, down the lake. Running full main, and 130 genny.

Saturday tweaked the rig tune a bit (shrouds hadn't been used in a while, so tensions slacked some). Winds were 10-14mph gusts to 25mph (OH YEAH now that's a challenge). Started out full main, and 130... after fighting it with several of the higher gusts single handing... I found a cove, dropped jib, and reefed. Proceeded to sail for another 3 hours. found the 6HP long shaft TOO long, dragged in the water when there was a swell or hit hull speed.

Anyway, wanted to say, it's a helluva boat. Sails like a beast, has some backbone (as she hardens up nicely when pushed), and generally I am sorry Catalina doesn't make these anymore.

Right now I only have about 8-10 inches of rake... gotta lengthen that headstay, also I really need some sails, had a devil of a time keeping pace with a Cat 27 running full sails and a 150 (probably the motor).

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 07:21:29

Oh great, still haven't raced. Got out Sunday waiting for the start, and delay delay delay... then CANCELLED. Nice picnic afterwards though. Met all the folks from the Club. I guess there aren't a lot of Capri 25 sailboats on the east coast... very few people had ANY idea what kind of boat it was, much less it's performance.

I was introduced by the ASA instructor/vice commodore as "Here's John, he tells me the boats rough, and the sails are blown out, but he's using all the right terms, and seems to know what he's doing, and more importantly it looked like his was one of the few boats moving out there before they called the race." Great, there goes the surprise factor.

Seriously though, I recall the Capri 25 being a rare boat, but not unheard of, are they that unusual in the NE/Mid Atlantic states?

Edited by - on

Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 12:40:37

Sorry about the race cancellation, I know what it's like to build up for a race and then have it cancelled. This doesn't answer your question about 25's in the East coast, but we have 4 in our small Alabama marina (2 are active). The neighboring marina has 2 with 1 being active. I understand that at Lake Martin (near Birmingham)some sailing club has 2 Capri 25's for rent/

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joearcht
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2012 : 05:09:22

We have 4 now at Keowee Sailing club in upstate South Carolina, but two are owned by the same guy. He bought the second one from a retiring member who wanted the boat to stay at the club so sold it pretty cheap. Not sure what he is going to do with the extra boat, but I think he is swapping parts to get the best boat out of the two right now. All are/were actively raced, but suffer from age. One of the boats is hull #3.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2012 : 05:37:37

I'm slowly working on items (you know anything that can be addressed in 30 minutes or less because I'd rather sail)... I did, however, sell my 6hp Mariner, and turned around and purchased a well maintained 2.2hp Mercury water cooled motor. My speed into 10-15mph winds is about 4.5 knots, which, frankly, is OK with me. The internal tank keeps me from worrying about gas tanks in the lazarette that isn't ventilated, and it prevents me from dealing with an external tank I have no place for.

We went out in 10-15mph winds gusts to 20. Sailed up and down the lake twice, running full main and 130 genoa, the wind direction was perfect to do one tack down, one up, close reaching up then broad reaching back. Perfect fun sailing. Hit 7.25 knots at one point (on the GPS), was consistently above 6 knots.

Oh and wouldn't you know it, now that my Capri 22 is gone, I saw one older one on the lake yesterday, and a brand new one on the lake. The new one looked to be doing real well in the breeze sailing hard over and slotted in nicely, probably bouncing between 15-20 degrees of heel headed up the lake.

I have to get my traveler car sorted though, had the blocks turn on me and made it REALLY hard to dump the traveler in a puff.

Otherwise I am just now starting to realize just how well this boat sails.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2012 : 08:37:14

Ok, well I managed to wrangle some experienced crew for race number 2 for me. With just him and I, and some nasty light winds (literally 0-5mph) we were first over the start line for our class (race), and physically finished 2nd across the line. I am waiting to see where we corrected to, but I was very happy how we did. With the boat needing TONS of attention, this was really better than I ever expected. Stay tuned when I get the corrected results.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2012 : 11:45:44

Well, I have to be smoking something because we did terrible for the class (corrected time) they put me in (they moved me from race to one design in the process, which is probably where I should be)... We were 6th out of 7 in our class, only ahead of one J/22. The winds were all but non-existent (the last 20 minutes we had wind), and honestly corrected over the whole fleet was a cat-boat, so I dunno that this race is indicative of anything... and if it is, it means everyone should buy a cat-boat!

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 03:28:55

Figured, I'd throw this at my own thread, cause it's more of the "same."

Just wanted to share. I think I finally got my tune right, after reading the Elliot Patterson capri 25 rig tune suggestions, and also the Haarstick rig tune suggestions, and the north, and here, and from wayzatta, I kind of took the best of all of them and did this. I've increased rake to 12-14 inches, loosened my aft lowers, and increased my forward lowers, so that I have some "pre bend," and increasing backstay adjustment, brings the aft lowers taught with bend in the mast. I also lengthened the forestay to my max.

I bring this up, because I can now keep time with a J/24, and sometimes pace a J/22. I won't lie, my 30 year old sails are still killing me, as is the bottom of this boat which is a mess. These are both going to be addressed this winter... but I am quite impressed how dramatic those small changes have affected my speed! I went from 8 inches rake to this, and also created slightly more pre-bend, I probably increased the forestay about 2 inches to get from 8 inches rake to 14.

Our sail club is a small one, but the sailors are quite good (a couple sail the old 12 meters as crew for fun on weekends). We all sail pretty short handed, I sail solo mostly, but have had 2 crew at one point. Our winds are always squirrely on the lake, in fact not unusual to get 90 degree wind shifts, and have 0-14mph winds in the same 3 hour race. The trick is to be able to adapt quickly to the changes.

Anyway, I've had several of these really good sailors come up and comment how "fast" this boat appears. Many of them had never seen a Capri 25 before. These are S2 7.9 sailors, and J boat owners.

I am not kidding when I say the boat needs work (bottom has more layers of paint than a 100 year old church). The sails are rough, but I'm still quite impressed with what it can do. I had one guy ask that I please not fix those things.

Finally, I have noted that sail trim is a very precise art on this boat. It does not seem to be very forgiving. If you get it right, the boat can smoke most of them, but if you are off by even a little, you fall behind. I am constantly watching the tales on the sails to see how flow is.

Sorry for the long rant, but really, am falling in love with this boat.

Edited by - shnool on 08/27/2012 12:11:15

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 06:44:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 I am constantly watching the tales on the sails to see how flow is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> IMO, that's the key to sustaining speed in a sailboat, and probably accounts for why you're doing so well despite the old sails and foul bottom. The wind is constantly changing speed and direction, and when you aren't paying enough attention, it can change just enough to lose speed. If you are focused on it, you can make tiny adjustments that keep your speed maximized. You'll have a higher average speed for the course than a boat who's crew isn't as focused. The best sail trimmers are very active.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2012 : 11:44:16

Ok, I thought I'd post this here...
Darn quality of it isn't there.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkS3EDja-Vo was hoping you could see the knot meter.

I sailed last night, winds 8-12mph gusts to 15 at a point (then as always it died off)... but anyway, I thought you'd be able to see in the video (you can in the original, but utube lowered quality so you can't see it), my 12 knot meter, has 6 knots dead vertical. I exceeded 6 knots several times, on the close haul down the lake, sustained 6.5 at one point for over 30 seconds. I know it to be "surfing" not "planing" as some say, which is also possible, but likely only under spin, but since I was above 6 knots for 30+ seconds figure it's more than just surfing, it's increased waterline? I thought hull speed was 5.2

You can clearly tell in the video when it's happening, because the boat develops a huge FROTH from it's wake to starboard.

So the question is, whats a "typical" speed you can see while beating with this boat. I obviously am pushing the heel in this, past anything reasonable, to about 20-25 degrees at times,but I've found that she's fastest at 15-20, am I wrong? I know others say sail it flat, but I'm getting different numbers from my experience... oh and I verified these numbers with my GPS using Navionics... Actually if anything my knot meter reads about 0.2 knots slow.

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jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2012 : 16:25:06

Huh. One thing that struck me about that was your jib sheeting to a track about 6" outboard of the standard fairlead track. What's up with that!?

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2012 : 17:39:25

Can't get my car on the inboard track, it's on my list the car is too wide to get on the track (modern Capri 22 car garhauer model, this one actually http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=379&ParentCat=411 )... I think the PO rebedded the tracks crooked or something, I tried to "make it fit" but it was a no go, I'll likely rebed the tracks then see what the fit is.

But that would explain why I can't point (a problem honestly I've not had), but hard to say, in our circles my point is OK, but I'm comparing against several fractionals.

Oh I make no excuses for the shape the sails are in, they are original, and shot, that' is To Be Addressed, after this season (money issue).

Edited by - shnool on 08/30/2012 17:55:02

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