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I want a whisker pole!

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Captain Max
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USA
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Initially Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:35:55

Anybody got a whisker pole for a Catalina 25 they want to sell? I've looked online and don't think I can pay the prices for a new one. Any alternatives you guys know of? Even making one would be an option. Want to use for racing.

Captain Max
"Wyvern"
84 Cat 25 FK
Bayview Marina
Dallas Tx Area

Edited by - Captain Max on 06/25/2012 12:38:53

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:40:52

Me Too!

Edited by - on

Captain Max
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:47:23

Dibs! I was first.

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dragonf1y
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:54:42

I have one, but I'm nowhere near you.

Good Old Boat magazine had an article on page 41 of their May/June 2012 #84 issue on how to make your own whisker pole for an estimated cost of about $50.
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/back_issues.php#2012

Edited by - dragonf1y on 06/25/2012 12:55:24

Captain Max
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 13:02:26

Thanks, by coincidence, I was admiring your interior cabin pic from another post just a minute ago.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 13:15:28

dragonf1y: I'm near you and want one...

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/25/2012 : 14:28:31

It's easy to make one, up to about 12 ft. but if you want one for racing a C25, you really need a sectional pole that will extend out to 15 ft. If you want to try something easy, for less than $15, buy a 12' closet dowel, one of those U-shaped tool holders that screw into a wall stud, and some kind of spring clip. Attach the tool holder to one end and secure the spring clip to the other end. Use your imagination! You now have a cheap whisker pole, it's flexible, and it floats, too! The tool holder end is for the sail, put one prong into the clew or a small loop of line tied to the clew. The spring clip attaches to the mast ring. It will be a few feet shorter than ideal for the genoa, but should work well for the working jib.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 04:04:34

I keep thinking about makin one up with a crutch end, like they use on the snipes.

Do the sails get caught up on the mast ring??

I need to install one of those first.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 05:41:53

I've seen some folks use the FG painter's poles. I was looking at them at the lumberyard the other day and they look too lightly built for my taste, but at $30, it may be worth a try.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 06:27:08

<< too lightly built >>

But you'd think we were only using this in light winds.
I'd expect to see more improvised, light, simple solutions.

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NautiC25
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 07:08:12

For light wind, you could use almost anything (pvc, painters pole, 1" conduit, bamboo). Just don't use any of this in heavy wind or you can expect a spear being thrown around.

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Captain Max
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 07:25:57

I was looking at the FG painter poles too, yeah, think they are too light

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 07:27:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << too lightly built >>

But you'd think we were only using this in light winds.
I'd expect to see more improvised, light, simple solutions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 I've seen some folks use the FG painter's poles. I was looking at them at the lumberyard the other day and they look too lightly built for my taste, but at $30, it may be worth a try.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I used a Forespar ADJ 6-12 adjustable whisker pole (currently $132.99 at Defender) on my C25 for about 7-8 years, until I broke it by using it in winds that were too strong. Then I removed the end fittings and mounted them on a 6-12 adjustable paint roller pole, and used it for another 10-12 years, until the pole end clips failed to hold, and the pole came loose and dropped off in 30 feet of water.

Poles like that are not ideal. They are too light for use in all winds, but I found that I only needed one in very light winds, when the wind was too light to keep the sail filled, and there was little risk of breaking it. When used on a C25, the ADJ 6-12 must be set between the forward lower stay and the upper, because it is too short to work well when set in the way that you would set the longer ADJ 7-17. At first it's intimidating to set the pole between the stays, because you have visions of the pole being bent and broken against the stay, but by adjusting the jib sheet, you can control the pole, and prevent that from happening, especially if you only use the pole in light air. Also, when you telescope the pole to it's maximum length, it becomes it's weakest, like a slender reed. Therefore, you should make a practice of only extending it as far as needed to keep the sail filled.

You could buy the pole ends separately, and mount them on a paint roller pole, but the last I checked, they were expensive when bought separately, so I suggest you buy the ADJ 6-12, and, if the pole breaks, install the end fittings on the sturdiest paint roller pole you can find.

When I bought my ADJ 6-12, it came with a plastic or delrin pad eye for the mast, but I suggest you throw it away and mount a ss pad eye on the mast. The plastic one is way too weak. I never felt a need for an adjustable pad eye on the mast for use with a whisker pole. If, however, you plan to fly a spinnaker at some time in the future, I recommend you install an adjustable pad eye.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 09:06:45

Good writeup Steve.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 11:31:02

I usually find the winds a too squirrerly on my lake and most often run a broad reach on one side or the other. Flying a cruising shute .. Light winds are about the only time I'd consider a whisker pole and would like to try a design with a crutch end like I've seen used on Snipes.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 12:41:23

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23958&SearchTerms=home,made,whisker,pole"]here's[/url] a previous post on the subject

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 06/26/2012 : 20:13:54

Personally I think that the ADJ6-12 is too short for any sail other than a 135% (and I even have some doubt about that). I fly a 150% and the pole extends to 15'9". You need to deploy the full width of the sail to get maximum performance.
At the Nationals on the Columbia River we raced against some C25's running chutes and some just JAM. We had a 150% fully extended on a ADJ17 pole and beat everybody to the finish line(this was on Alice's boat - not mine).

Edited by - on

TCurran
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 03:19:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23958&SearchTerms=home,made,whisker,pole"]here's[/url] a previous post on the subject
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I made one like the one in DaveR's picture in the old thread. Except on the sail end I cut an old paint roller about two to three inches from the handle, ground the end to a rounded point, screwed and taped it on the end of the paint pole. Use quite often, but as others mentioned, not in heavy winds.

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 04:51:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Personally I think that the ADJ6-12 is too short for any sail other than a 135% (and I even have some doubt about that). I fly a 150% and the pole extends to 15'9". You need to deploy the full width of the sail to get maximum performance.
At the Nationals on the Columbia River we raced against some C25's running chutes and some just JAM. We had a 150% fully extended on a ADJ17 pole and beat everybody to the finish line(this was on Alice's boat - not mine).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I used the ADJ 6-12 to win the 1985 C25 National Regatta, beating 29 C25s of all configurations, including spinnaker, as well as non-spinnaker boats. All boats raced in a single start. The short pole only works well with a 150 if you set it between the forward lower and the upper shroud, but in one instance Captiva Wind, sailing wing and wing, overtook and passed a spinnaker boat downwind. The skipper of the spinnaker boat was stunned. After the first day of racing, the spinnaker skippers asked for longer downwind legs, so the next day, the RC gave them the longest downwind legs the lake would permit, and Captiva Wind still beat them.

I don't want to over-sell the idea of using a 6-12 pole, because I bought mine over 30 years ago, and it's possible that Forespar is not making them as strong as "in the old days," but it worked fine for me. The ADJ 7-17 is unquestionably a better, stronger pole that can be used in stronger winds, but I found the ADJ 6-12 to be a much cheaper alternative that worked for me.

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DaveR
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 06:04:13

But ya know Tom, We've had yours out in some fair wind, what do you think, 10 knots or a little more? Worked well ....

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Captain Max
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 07:26:45

I think I'll try the ADJ 6-12. Fairly light on the pocket book. Ordered from West Marine online. The price was no more than other sites, with the advantage of no shipping fees as it is being delivered to the store. Thanks for all the comments, great site!

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 09:14:24

"The short pole only works well with a 150 if you set it between the forward lower and the upper shroud,"
Steve, that's what scares me! With the shifty winds we have on Canyon Lake this could be a recipe for disaster.
I like to set the pole forward of the forward lower so that I can "rotate" the sail plan to accomodate minor wind shifts and, if necessary,can even let the pole go all the way forward. This may be one reason why we are so effective going downwind.

Edited by - on

Captain Max
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 09:27:37

At least on Ray Hubbard the winds have always seemed to be fairly constant. Now I know you need to have the pole roughly parallel to the water, but could you actually attach it to a stanchion base?

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 11:15:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 "The short pole only works well with a 150 if you set it between the forward lower and the upper shroud,"
Steve, that's what scares me! With the shifty winds we have on Canyon Lake this could be a recipe for disaster.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think it scares most people who haven't tried it, as it did me at first. I wouldn't recommend it at a sailing venue like Buzzards Bay or San Francisco, or perhaps your lake, where high windspeeds are fairly common, or where sudden and radical changes in wind velocity are frequent. But most of us sail on inland lakes and bays where winds are often light to moderate and reasonably predictable. The winds on Brookville Lake were usually moderate in strength, and, although the winds are extremely shifty there, the wind velocity usually doesn't vary widely or suddenly. If the wind pipes up, there's time to take the pole down. I used my 6-12 pole for a total of about 22 years and only broke one. By my rough calculations, for the price of one 7-17 pole, I could have bought about 5 6-12 poles from Forespar. Since I only broke it once, I think I came out ahead economically, and still won lots of races and had loads of fun.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I like to set the pole forward of the forward lower so that I can "rotate" the sail plan to accomodate minor wind shifts and, if necessary,can even let the pole go all the way forward. This may be one reason why we are so effective going downwind.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> That's the way I did it when I borrowed a friend's 7-17 pole once, and you're right - it works really well!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/27/2012 11:28:24

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 11:27:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captain Max
 At least on Ray Hubbard the winds have always seemed to be fairly constant. Now I know you need to have the pole roughly parallel to the water, but could you actually attach it to a stanchion base?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I once jury-rigged a boat hook to use as a whisker pole, and lashed one end to a mast stay, but wouldn't do it regularly. As I recall, it was in very light air on a friend's boat, and we had gained a lead on the windward leg, and were desperate to keep the boat moving, and he didn't have a whisker pole, so we made do with what we had.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 06/27/2012 : 13:24:00

We did that last night. The downwind run in our beercan races is usually pretty short, so even without a spinnaker we can do okay against many teams that do have a spinnaker. Going wing and wing last night with a boat hook as a whisker pole helped us out.

I want to get a real one, but $300+ is a bit much right now, especially if I just get a spinnaker later and need a different pole. I'm still trying to evaluate the best downwind sail options for my needs.

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