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Raising the Mainsail

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tomh
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/12/2012 : 20:07:26

My wife and I (both new to sailing) went out yesterday. She enjoys sailing but is nervous about me going forward to raise the Main with the wench on the mast. She is anxious to spend the money to modify our lines so that we can raise the main from the cockpit. I've been searching the forum to figure out how to do it (never give up an opportunity when she wants to spend money on sailing)! I'm now confused and concerned as to whether I also have the the main configured correctly.

My questions are:

1) Is there any "best way" to control raising and lowering the main from the cockpit?

2) Is there a "detailed" picture of the components installed on the mast? I have (from the bottom up) the pop top hook, a cleat, the boom and a "stop block" (just above the slot to insert to sail). I've looked in the technical manuals but I'm not convinced that something is not missing or that the components are in the wrong order.

Pictures would really be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

1978 C25 "Karma" #790
Toledo Beach Marina
LaSalle, Michigan

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 03:48:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is there a "detailed" picture of the components installed on the mast? I have (from the bottom up) the pop top hook, a cleat, the boom and a "stop block" (just above the slot to insert to sail). I've looked in the technical manuals but I'm not convinced that something is not missing or that the components are in the wrong order. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have those items in that order, however, I have an additional "stop block" otherwise known as a sail stop. This stop is located just under the boom. It keeps the boom from sliding down the mast when I lower the sail.

I have halyards that go to the cockpit. So I can raise the main from there. However, I still need to get on the cabin top when I lower the sail, to tie it up.

Being able raise the main sail from the cockpit is nice, But I think you should get comfortable going forward. Because if you have a need to go there, say to reef the main, it will probably not be in good weather conditions.

Edited by - on

tomh
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 03:59:09

Davy,

Sounds like I'm missing a second sail stop for starters. I'm assuming that the cleat on the mast is used to reef the sail.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 04:02:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm assuming that the cleat on the mast is used to reef the sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The cleat in the sail track under the boom is there to tie a line to the bottom of the boom fitting. That line prevents the boom from raising up.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 04:34:24

The winch on the mast is used to tension the jib halyard, not the main halyard.

When raising the mainsail, the best way to do it is to untie the downhaul, raise the sail to the top of the mast, and then to tension it properly in relation to the wind velocity, and then tie the downhaul. On my boat, the lines were not run to the cockpit, so I tensioned the main halyard on my tall rig by half-sitting on the boom, putting enough weight on it to tension it properly.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5369 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 06:32:49

Because Passage came with a nice set of halyard brakes between the sliding top and the starboard grab rails on the cabintop, a very beautiful block at the base of the mast and a set of flush mounted blocks in between, the main halyard is controllable from the cockpit. As noted above, there are many times I have to go forward:
1. To unfoul the halyard from the spreaders
2. To secure or remove a wrap around the flaked mainsail
3. To unfoul my sail downhaul. (make sure to add one to your rig to douse the main in a sudden blow).

Sine Passage also came with a nice bimini, I hoist the main up as far as possible to allow the boom to clear it. Once up all the way I adjust the boom downhaul to flatten sail or let it float to keep it baggier in light airs.

Edited by - Voyager on 07/13/2012 08:21:54

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 07:20:47

Other equipment that you can add to make going forward safer is a jackline, tether, and harness or integrated inflatable PFD/harness.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 07:38:50

The basics are: a mast step haylard plate, a block, a deck organizer, and a rope clutch. And you can add a winch to the deck house if you like.
the hayard goes down to the botton of the mast, thru the block, out starbord to the deck organizer, then towards the cockpit and thru the clutch into the cockpit.
you can go the Catalina Direct and see all these parts. If you look at pictures of various C25's you will see how they are organized.
BUT, as others have said, you need to be comfortable working forward. Best Sam.

Edited by - Sam001 on 07/13/2012 07:39:39

tomh
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 11:54:47

Thanks for the comments. The more; the better. The thing that I like about this forum is that everyone puts in their 2 cents. Within a few days you wind up with a lot of cents which is a good thing and a lot of help in going forward.

I've looked at parts on Catalina Direct and found a kit for bringing lines back to the cockpit. It seems to require a new plate so I would have to step the mast to install it. I don't think that there is a great sense of urgency, so I'll probably make the modification in the spring. In the mean time, I think that the jackline is the best short term solution. I don't have a problem going forward but want to keep the boss calm while I'm up there.

I can't wait until I know enough to contribute and give back for all I've received.

Thanks

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 13:07:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomh
 Thanks for the comments. The more; the better. The thing that I like about this forum is that everyone puts in their 2 cents. Within a few days you wind up with a lot of cents which is a good thing and a lot of help in going forward.

I've looked at parts on Catalina Direct and found a kit for bringing lines back to the cockpit. It seems to require a new plate so I would have to step the mast to install it. I don't think that there is a great sense of urgency, so I'll probably make the modification in the spring. In the mean time, I think that the jackline is the best short term solution. I don't have a problem going forward but want to keep the boss calm while I'm up there.

I can't wait until I know enough to contribute and give back for all I've received.

Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you can attach a block to/at the base of the mast you can get set up without taking the mast down.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 13:08:35

Just FYI, I helped Alex (awetmore) a couple of months ago drop his mast so he could install the deck plate as well as change over from wire to rope halyards. Even though neither of us had ever dropped the mast that way, we'd only read about it, it went very smoothly, especially since he'd recruited a couple of friends to help, so there were several people around to keep the mast under control.

Installing the plate for him was a bit more complex than anticipated, but that was because he needed to drill a hole through the plate for his antenna wire and they drilled it on the dock (would have been easier with a drill press, but it was soon done).

Rita (my wife) is pretty nervous going forward, or when I go forward, but we have integral harnesses in our self inflating PFD's, as well as double lanyards and we always practice "one hand for the boat, one hand for you". If it's nasty out, whoever goes up forward will attach themselves either to the halyard ring on the front of the mast (this is what I do when I'm sailing solo), or attach themselves to the spinnaker halyard and have the other in the cockpit take up tension on them while up there. On the foredeck, if you're restrained from above, you can't fall into the water, although you could do some pretty spectacular swings if the boat were heeled far enough.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 13:36:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've looked at parts on Catalina Direct and found a kit for bringing lines back to the cockpit. It seems to require a new plate so I would have to step the mast to install it. I don't think that there is a great sense of urgency, so I'll probably make the modification in the spring.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You might want to look into making the halyards internal to the mast. I'm not sure how difficult the job is because my boat was rigged this way when I got her. Both jib and main halyards exit the mast above the tabernacle.

Edited by - on

JKBIXBY
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 14:50:16

Another great addition from CD is a set of mastgators.
Really makes life better.
JOhn on ms achsa 77 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 15:28:58

Tom, FWIW, all you need at the base of the mast is a turning block attachment. That could be just some kind of a tang that mounts to the bolt through the mast. It could be a double block to handle both halyards and then through the deck mounted turning block then through a clutch/brake to the winch. The deck plate just gives you more options -if you need them. I have had larger boats with internal halyards and at many anchorages around here you will hear them slapping all night long no matter how tight you make them. I'll never have them again. It's better to be able to relax the tension and use a bungie wrapped around a shroud to pull them away from the mast and never hear them no matter how hard it blows. After 40 years of sailing I have learned the No. 1 rule for continued sailng pleasure is: Make the Admiral happy. (And never put her on the mast!)

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 21:34:41

Here's how you make it so your wife can solo the boat without ever leaving the cockpit. Install lazy jacks, reefing lines running aft to line stoppers, and a downhaul. Running the halyard back to the cockpit completes the install.

Head into the wind, pull it up. Head into the wind and let her drop. If the slides are slick and lubed, the sail might drop without the outhaul, although bad weather usually makes the main hang a few feet up. Color code the line and mark the stoppers. Get a mesh bag system to keep the lines from fouling, and you'll look like a pro every time.

sten

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2012 : 22:28:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomh
 My wife and I (both new to sailing) went out yesterday. She enjoys sailing but is nervous about me going forward to raise the Main with the wench on the mast. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My wife isn't crazy about my mast wench either!

Seriously though, as new sailors, before you go making changes, get some sea time under your belts. You and your wife may just discover going to the mast to raise the main was much ado about nothing.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2012 : 04:53:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have had larger boats with internal halyards and at many anchorages around here you will hear them slapping all night long no matter how tight you make them. I'll never have them again.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is a surprise to me since my internal all-rope halyards have never made any type of noise at all. I do remove the halyard from the sail and clip off to a lifeline when not sailing.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2012 : 06:44:50

The Catalina Direct mast step base plate is a very nice upgrade and worth doing at some point. As I figure out my own preferences in rigging I've found it helpful to be able to reroute the running rigging. The base plate makes this a lot easier than moving blocks around on the deck and requires no additional holes in the boat. I'm sure that you'll want to lower your mast at some point (I did it to add an antenna, wind indicator, check standing rigging, replace halyards and sheaves, and other small stuff) and that is a good time to add the base plate.

I currently have my two halyards, boom vang, and reefing lines run to the cockpit. I've experimented with other configurations too.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2012 : 09:47:55

When I added the base plate, the holes didn't line up with my mast step. I didn't have equipment that was up to drilling through that heavy stainless, so I took both pieces to a local machine shop to put two new holes in the plate.

I added a sail stop under the boom and another above it, just below the mast gate. This way, when I raised the sail as Steve Milby describes, I didn't have to worry about the gooseneck popping out of the gate before I got the downhaul re-tensioned. Later, I added CD's mast gate plates (at that time sold by they guy who made them), primarily to allow the slugs to go all the way down to the boom when furling or reefing the main. Then I could remove the stop above the gate, but kept one below the boom and simply left the downhaul permanently cleated. I was able to tension the main adequately with the halyard from the cockpit. (I didn't race her.)

I also added what I called a "dousing line" to the main, as Bruce and Sten describe, to pull it down the last few feet without any acrobatics. I recommend attaching it at the topmost slug--not at the head of the sail. If at the head, it tends to pull the head over to the side and bind things up. (Same if it's for dousing a hank-on jib, which takes a little block at the bow.) I led the line back through a "deck organizer" to a stopper at the cockpit by the halyard stopper. When I was about to hoist the main, I'd drop the dousing line coil into the companionway so it would run freely through the stopper as the sail went up.

But I agree with Don... Give yourself some time before you start changing things too radically. Meanwhile, look at the set-ups on other boats and in our "Tech Tips". That will make your choices smarter, and help you to appreciate them more.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/14/2012 10:00:06

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/14/2012 : 23:35:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 But I agree with Don... Give yourself some time before you start changing things too radically. Meanwhile, look at the set-ups on other boats and in our "Tech Tips". That will make your choices smarter, and help you to appreciate them more.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK, agreed... Although, NOTHING is a cool as all lines running aft. Well, except for the small electric winch that rolls up the 155.

Having to go forward is a legitimate safety issue, specially on smaller boats, but any boat really. When conditions are bad and you need to either raise or lower the sails from the mast, a lot of bad stuff can happen.

I can assure you that after transiting the East Coast a few times on our C&C 39, my wife has been nervous a few times when I needed to go forward and that's with jacklines rigged and clipped on. And that was only when there was an issue that didn't involve sails as all my lines run aft.

Lazyjacks are a must. Contains the sail and gets you back into the cockpit quickly - if you have to leave - and lets you get away with dropping the main without using sail ties.

Raising the main from the cockpit allows you to head into the wind accurately.

Reefing from the cockpit - if you need to put in a reef, I'm guessing it's ablowing and the wawa isn't flat, you will really like being able to control the boat, but I digress.

The number one reason why you should buy everything your wife wants to make sure you are safe, is just that. Be safe. Make her feel safe. AND! She is giving you the green light to trick out your boat!!!

Before we went cruising, my wife called me and said, "Honey, I think I found our perfect boat!" When your wife says that, you buy the boat!

She wants to be involved. Let her understand how and why and she will become hooked. My wife and I rewired and revamped our C25 and having worked on the mast, valued the vessels systems and understood how things worked, etc... I'd say yes, to everything...

sten

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 05:19:32

Amen! Yes Dear!

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 06:50:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking

The number one reason why you should buy everything your wife wants to make sure you are safe, is just that. Be safe. Make her feel safe. AND! She is giving you the green light to trick out your boat!!!

Before we went cruising, my wife called me and said, "Honey, I think I found our perfect boat!" When your wife says that, you buy the boat!

I'd say yes, to everything...

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Sten!
I would say thats some of the most sage advice I have ever heard about boating in general!!! <grin>

Cheers!
Chuck

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 09:56:14

OK, I'll relent... Go for it! Pics of what many of us have done to lead lines aft are [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/tt008.asp"]here[/url], in the Tech Tips. I got a kit from CD, and the total price was competitive with getting the components from Defender (who doesn't have the base plate). You need a new (longer) main halyard, so it's time to convert to all rope if you have wire-to-rope now--that's been discussed here many times. If you have a roller-furler (??), there's no reason to lead the jib halyard back, so it can be shorter. (If you don't have one, that's at the top of your list! It'll change your life!)

When you're ordering clutches, you might as well go with triples, which will give you considerable flexibility for what you lead back in the future--for example, if you choose to go with two-line reefing and have a vang. Be aware that rope clutches are designed for specific ranges of rope diameters--5/16ths is the typical halyard size, but you might want clutches that can also handle down to 1/4" for reefing lines or whatever. Nothing needs to be as big as 1/2".

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/15/2012 10:00:15

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 13:21:55

I won't relent...When I first got my boat, I changed out my wire/rope halyards and led the new main back to the cockpit, but I soon found that it wasn't working out for me with how I do things so it was back to the mast with it. That was over eleven years ago and I still raise/lower the main from the mast and I'm a singlehanded sailor.

Edited by - on

sbrBrad
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 13:25:40

On my first boat, a Precision 165, I had to go forward to raise either sail. That was a much smaller boat that pitched a lot more than a C25. I now have a C25 and can raise the main sail and unfurl the jib all from the cockpit. I wouldn't ever go back.

That being said, I still have to go forward at least once per sailing trip for various reasons. So...I would say yes, install the lines to the cockpit, but be able to comfortably go forward when needed.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2012 : 14:37:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 My wife isn't crazy about my mast wench either!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm single, so I change out my Mast Wench frequently.

Edited by - on

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