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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outboard motor issue for 84 s/k

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krobsten
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2012 : 08:44:07

There were so many people who've been so helpful as the wife and I get underway that i thought I'd provide a quick update on our boat and ask a few questions. I'll focus on the outboard.

First of all, we settled on a name: the Sound's Irish. It's a nod to the LI Sound, but my brother seems to think we're dooming ourselves to the Sound claiming her as its own. :)

More importantly, we took the general advice we got on here to be aggressive in prepping for launch. We've been bouncing around in rental slips but haven't been out for a sail in the last two months as we got inspections. The upshot: having her hauled out this week to get the engine mount and mounting plate replaced. While it's out, I'm having the swing keel cable replaced and a general cleaning (along with new zincs, etc.) done. Lastly, I'm going to have the engine (9.9 Mercury outboard) serviced and an evaluation of the rudder. There is a break in the seam of the rudder, so it looks like a given that we have to replace it to alleviate the fear of it breaking when sailing.

In short, it's expensive stuff, but we knew this was what we were in for. At least I know she'll be properly maintained as we learn to sail. A few questions: One, the current bracket is a bear to get up and out of the water. I have a bad back and the weight of getting the engine out of the water is tough. Tougher still is the fact that the engine, when pulled out and the "up" into the locked position bangs against the transom. There's no clearance, and it's tough to get to the release handle to lower the engine afterward.

Because the backing board the bracket is bolted into is already bending out, the guy who's working on it is saying the best bet is to get a custom-built bracket made especially for the boat. I can't be sure, but it appears to be the 3-spring mount, which is designed for engines 80-95 pounds. The dry weight for the lightest Merc 9.9 is 86, so I'm assuming I have to get the 4-spring (Product #: Z2275) bracket. Has anyone else had this issue, and have you experienced a significant difference in the ability to lift and lower the engine as a result? Did it need to be a custom job? I need a minimum of 9.9 to get up and down Housatonic River that can run upwards of 7-8 knots on bad days, so I can't downsize.

I have more questions, but I'll separate them. Thanks!

"I finally got off the dock... the problems is I can't get my boat out of the slip!"
Rob & Kristen, hapless newbies
Stratford, CT
1984 Catalina 25 SK

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 09:05:40

The hull speed of the Catalina 25 won't allow you to push against a 7-8 knot current even if you have a 50hp motor. A ~10hp is a good size motor for this boat (especially since the 8hp motors aren't much if any lighter).

Your current motor mount may not be made by the same people as the ones that Catalina Direct is selling now. I don't think that you can necessarily count springs to get a comparison. I've wondered the same thing (how much spring counterweight is on my motor mount) to compare to other alternatives.

I don't think that you need a custom bracket.

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krobsten
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 10:04:01

Alex, that's why I need to keep the 9.9. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has explored whether the http://www.garelick.com/Aluminum-Auxiliary-Motor-Bracket-For-4-Stroke-Motors is any better than the 4-spring version on CD Direct. Does anyone know if that's a different brand?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 10:41:16

Catalina Direct's bracket (essentially an improved version of what Catalina put on most C-25s) is made by Garhauer. You can Search (above) for "outboard bracket" in the C-25 forum and see many discussions. I think the predominant feeling is the 3-spring Garhauer is the right choice for a mid-80 lb. engine--a 4-spring might require your foot on the outboard to push it down, and might be difficult to release in order to raise. You can check with CD about that.

Your clearance problem, along with the "backing board", suggests to me that a previous owner replaced the bracket with something other than the Garhauer. A Fulton bracket I bought had a clearance problem when up, so they gave me some extension pieces to move it away from the transom. These days, I think I'd buy the improved Garhauer.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/23/2012 10:47:48

Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 10:54:36

The 4-spring model from CD is the way to go. A freind of mine installed the Garelick and ended up having to build it out with a 2 inch thick block of 'sea-board' in order for the motor to stay clear of the transom when lifted - and it stuck out quite a ways under power. The ones from CD are made by Garhauer and IMHO are the more substantial of the two. I have the model with 3 springs, which I got when I had a Honda BF100 and it had more than enough lifting assistance. With the Tohatsu 9.8 I now have, the effort required is almost at the limit of my lifting ablility with a bad back and artificial hip. Your 9.9 Merc is heavier and the extra lift of another spring is a good thing. If it offers too much resistance going down, you can always swing a leg over and use your foot to push it into locked position like I used to do with the lighter Honda. Many people also rig a block and tackle to assist in lifting so that's another option. I think the one from CD would still be less expensive than a custom job and will last longer than you'll own the boat.
Happy sails.

Edited by - Tim M on 07/23/2012 10:56:02

krobsten
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 11:11:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I think the predominant feeling is the 3-spring Garhauer is the right choice for a mid-80 lb. engine--a 4-spring might require your foot on the outboard to push it down, and might be difficult to release in order to raise. You can check with CD about that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

But if the engine is 96 pounds dry (and I don't know if that even includes the extended shaft), doesn't that rule out the 3-spring? It's only rated to 95 pounds. I was not aware that I might have trouble getting it down, although I would assume that it would be easier to push down than to pull up. I have looked at the other posts after doing a search but hadn't really seen an answer as to the ease of use. I did see that Larry posted a pic in march that included a pulley system of some sort, but I'm not sure if I'm up to the task on that.

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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 12:58:28

I have a 2001 Yamaha 9.9 4 stroke on my boat and it weighs almost exactly 96 pounds. I upgraded to to 4 spring bracket and it is almost perfectly balanced. I also added the stiffening braces that they sell for the inside of the transom. My old transom was warped pretty good and when upgrading i heard faint cracking sounds as i tightened the mount bolts. What i did was tighten it little by little over the course of the summer until it was flat. No way to know for sure, but I tend to think that strategy prevented the transom from cracking and splitting .

Also 2 notes about the outboard: first, it is a " high thrust" model which means it has a gear reduction system that drives an enormous propeller. The propeller on my outboard is a bigger diameter than the one on my in-laws 40 hp honda. A high thrust motor my be really helpful when you need to fight waves and currents.
Second, the 15hp version of my motor uses the same body and engine block so it weighs almost the same as the 9.9.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 13:51:41

I remember this discussion on the forum before and the general consensus was that the 4 springer from CD was the way to go. At first it will be a little hard to push down but as the springs wear in it will become more balanced. I also remember a member that bought the 4 springer an just disconnected one spring for his 2 cycle engine but wanted the 4 springer for the eventual upgrade to a heaver 4 cycle. Go with the CD mount, It was made for the boat.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 15:49:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by krobsten
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I think the predominant feeling is the 3-spring Garhauer is the right choice for a mid-80 lb. engine...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But if the engine is 96 pounds dry (and I don't know if that even includes the extended shaft), doesn't that rule out the 3-spring?...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I suppose so--you said 86 lbs. the first time.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 17:55:37

I don't know what happened to my previous post, but my Mercury Bigfoot is factory listed at 111 #. I also think that all factory claims are generally a little light to make their motors more appealing.

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WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2012 : 20:11:13

My 9.9 Merc Bigfoot weighs over 100 lbs. and the 4 springer works great.

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cat25
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2012 : 02:44:37

I have the three spring mount with a honda xlong shaft motor. Istill need help raising the motor. I installed adeer hunting block and tackle from the mount to the rear stancion. With the extra leverage lifting becomes easier. Cabelas has them and sporting goods stores. Works well.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2012 : 03:28:21

The original post indicated an outboard weight of 86lbs but then later that seemed to be corrected indicating 96lbs and that did not seem a certainty since the first post indicated based on the "lightest" Mercury and so your outboard could be a heavier Mercury which Mercury did sell...other mentioned in excess of 100lbs. This is important because my experience with installing a 4 spring Garhauer for a Honda at approximately 107lbs was that the springs were too strong for the outboard...initially. I could not lock the bracket in the lowest down position until after a week letting the outboard sit in an unlocked position and let the springs absorb the weight for that period. If your Mercury is indeed less than 100lbs, the 4 spring model may be at least initially too much spring action. Although, another post indicated that experience with a Yamaha that was 96lbs was okay with a 4 spring and so the 4 spring Garhauer may be okay. Bear in mind that any switch to a different mfrs bracket than what you have now would require drilling new holes. But for those switching from a 2 or 3 spring Garhauer to a 4 spring model, the existing holes should match up.

As I explained in an EMail I received yesterday, the photos I have on my website are misleading in regards to the block and tackle attached to my outboard. It is not sued for raising the outboard. The outboard actually pops up about 5-6" when released from the lowest locking position of the bracket. The block and tackle is left over from the PO who had a 2 spring Garhauer and probably did use it to help raise the outboard. I left the block and tackle on only as sort of a safety in case the outboard ever slipped off the bracket mounting plate. But I really should remove that block and tackle and post new photos without it so it's use is not misleading. A line used as a safety really is not needed since the 4 spring bracket I have has a metal edge guard on the perimeter of the mounting plate which would keep the outboard from falling off and besides, I have one of those channel locks that fits over the outboard's locking handles and so the handle levers can not become loose.

Those with bad backs, the easiest thing to try (least expensive) is to try a block and tackle but in practice, it may be a pain to usea nd so then best to replace the bracket if it needs to be right-sized based on the current outboard's weight. The other thing that may prove helpful for bad backs is an aid for tilting the outboard. I believe West Marine sells a handle that attaches to most outboard's upper casing and provides leverage in tilting the outboard. That may also help with outboard ergonomics.

Edited by - OLarryR on 07/24/2012 03:34:26

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2012 : 05:19:00

I replaced my motor and bracket this spring. I used the CD 4 spring model and put a tohatsu 9.8 xls on it. I LOVE the new bracket. No more wrestling to get the motor out of the water. I do have to push the motor down, but there is not much effort to do so.

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krobsten
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2012 : 06:46:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
I suppose so--you said 86 lbs. the first time.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're right--sorry

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panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2012 : 10:10:17

This is what I did. Go to tech tips click on Cat 25 then click on the outboard. You will see a spring assit article. I added this set up and it lift my 7.5 honda very well

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