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Stuck Halyard

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/21/2012 : 18:39:32

I finally got the boat on the water and rigged but today I went down to set the sails and found a BIG problem. The Main Halyard is stuck and won't budge. It looks as though the halyard has jumper the sheave, probably when we stepped the mast using a Gin pole rig. I guess I have three options, 1) drop the mast (not to keen on that), 2) get a long extension ladder and climb up (I'm OK with that), or 3) go up in the Boson chair (never done that or even used one). Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian & JoAnne Gleissner
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 18:50:01

Additional info:

From what I've read, the mast of a Standard Rig C25 is 28' so my 24' extension ladder should work. I can certainly secure it well at the base to keep it from pivotting. Am I correct on my assumption? I would like to fix this on Thursday (8/23).

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5418 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 19:19:11

Brian
A few months ago we talked about climbing the mast and we calculated what the maximum weight of a person on top of the mast could be without capsizing the boat.
After all was said and done, I think we arrived at < 180 pounds or something. Using my old statics and dynamics course, the leverage of the 1700 pound lead keel could be completely overcome by the weight of something like a 200 pounder on top of a 28 foot mast.
That means only people who are thin should go up the mast (which kinda figures).
Not for nothing, no disrespect intended and we've never met, but anyone that's a little heavier than they'd like (like me) should not attempt it.

You can always drop the mast . . .

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 19:59:26

Thanks for the input Bruce. Fortunately I've just dropped a few lbs. and I'm just tipping the scale at 171. Of course, factoring in the 40 lb. ladder I'm at the limit. We will be at the dock so I think dropping the keel into the muck will do the trick. I'll take some video so everyone can enjoy the experience. I have a buddy with a 28' ladder so I think I might be OK. Droping the mast is certainly a good option but I just got the damn thing up. Boom is on, jib halyard is fuctional as well. Halyard hanging up appears to be common. With any luck I'll be sailing by Friday. I'll let you know how it goes, if you don't hear back from me, it went badly (not probable). I'm a preety safe guy so plenty of caution will be used.

Best regards,

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 20:00:26

I think some variables might have been missed. I have been to the masthead in a bosun's chair without a problem, but it is certainly easier to get a skinny person up. A friend who probably tips the scales at 250 even stepped aboard while I was up to get a better view. It was exciting, but not close to a capsize.

edit: A well secured ladder might be tolerable to the spreaders with safety lines, but dropping the mast is by far the safest. I would never consider going to the masthead on a ladder. One halyard means one lifting line and no safety line in a chair.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 08/21/2012 20:05:26

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 20:04:52

Drop the mast! Much better, Much Safer, than dropping the Cap'n!

Paul

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 20:17:30

I was figuring using the jib halyard as a safety line. We should have plenty of hands to secure me with a line to a winch. The jib halyard appears to be a lighter weight than the main, is this always the case? most will depend on the hardware available. Stepping the mast is most likely the cause of the halyard slipping the sheave. Next year I'll be a little more aware and be able to prevent this from recurring. Won't be doing anything until Thursday. I think the Bosun's Chair is out of the question as I don't feel comfortable with the jib halyard hauling me up with the level on inexperience we are working with, myself included.

Later,

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 20:53:06

I don't understand all the concern about going to the masthead with a ladder. If you use the jib halyard to assist raising the ladder, and as a secure point for the top of the ladder, it sounds a lot more safe than a bosun's chair. Just like with a bosun chair you need to tighten up your dock lines to limit any heel but short of lowering the mast it sounds like a reasonable alternative.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4025 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 06:00:52

You could climb the ladder to the spreaders to keep the weight low then use a long pole to push up on the halyard. This might un-jam the line.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 06:25:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Brian
A few months ago we talked about climbing the mast and we calculated what the maximum weight of a person on top of the mast could be without capsizing the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hm... I would say it will more than 180pounds. My brother have a similar size boat and he wanted to check his keel. We tried to pull the mast down using halyard line and even 3 adult people was not able to heel more than 45degrees. That was the boat weighting 1800kg with retractable center board and ballast in the hull.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 07:47:36

The Only way I would go up a ladder is if I had a halyard line to a climbing harness on me. I would still consider that ladder a poorly designed option on a moving boat deck.

I would strongly encourage you find someone that climbs. I know several and they all love going up a mast, given they love to climb and a mast on a sailboat is something new and fun to them.

If a non-climber has a problem on a mast they will probably come down like a rick.. a climber will stick to that mast like ..well like spiderman. It is a learned skill set.

That being said.. you need to fix whatever is eating your line... so get three people to help you and drop the mast so you can get to the masthead for a reasonable repair.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaany hoo... my 2 cents.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 21:02:14

Using a bosun's chair will take you about 20 minutes. Dropping the mast is a total PITA and will take about 2 hours - thats a whole 100 minutes you could be sailing!
BTW I think that anyone over 170 lbs going up the mast would capsize the boat is a fairy tale! (that's the polite way to say "bull-sxxt")
I've had 200+ lbs guys go to the masthead without any problem (just a struggle to get 'em up there!)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 22:01:58

I agree on the weight "myth"--consider the heeling forces on the rig under sail. (...and if you're doing math, the fin keel is actually 1900#, and the form-stability of the hull is part of the equation.) But I'm inclined toward dropping the mast so you can easily do what needs to be done and have access to the tools to do it.

Is the halyard wire-to-rope? If so, changing over to all-rope, with the appropriate sheaves at the mast-head, will eliminate this rather common problem. Catalina Direct has everything you need. If your sheaves are the originals, it's likely their deterioration contributed to the problem.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/22/2012 22:06:02

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2012 : 04:38:56

For what it is worth-I would drop the mast and investigate what caused the problem to insure it would not happen in the future with use. Could a gust or other unusual movement cause it to jam?
I use an A frame to step and un-step the mast with the rear starboard boat winch. (The rope is attached to the forestay with pulleys, I leave the furler and jib in place) It takes me an hour to pull the boat drop the mast and have it ready to travel. Some folks use the jib halyard to step.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2012 : 17:53:56

To All -

Thanks for the great input. I got a 28' Extension ladder today, tied it off in about 8 places to the mast. Made a simple harness to clip on when I got to the top. Had to go up and down about 4 times with the right tools to dislodge the Halyard cable. It took aboua a 1/2 hour to get the Halyard free. The key was to tie off the mast to two adjacent docks for stability. Not much activity on the lake so everything was pretty stabile. All and all the fix went pretty smoothly. My Dad and buddy got some good video and photos. It definitely was easier than dropping the mast but I must admit it was a bit riskier. It wasn't on my bucket list but I'm glad I added it. This was a good lesson. I will most likely convert to full-rope halyards for next season. Now on to sailing, finally !

Thanks again,

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2012 : 09:20:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BCG-Woodbury
 To All -

Thanks for the great input. I got a 28' Extension ladder today, tied it off in about 8 places to the mast. Made a simple harness to clip on when I got to the top. Had to go up and down about 4 times with the right tools to dislodge the Halyard cable. It took aboua a 1/2 hour to get the Halyard free. The key was to tie off the mast to two adjacent docks for stability. Not much activity on the lake so everything was pretty stabile. All and all the fix went pretty smoothly. My Dad and buddy got some good video and photos. It definitely was easier than dropping the mast but I must admit it was a bit riskier. It wasn't on my bucket list but I'm glad I added it. This was a good lesson. I will most likely convert to full-rope halyards for next season. Now on to sailing, finally !

Thanks again,

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We've sent several skinny people up my mast with a bosun's chair. Not even a big deal.

Edited by - on

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