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1st engine failure, Honda fuel connector questio

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2012 : 20:34:53

I think the summer doldrums are finally over. We've been out in perfect conditions 3 times the last week. All three times we had perfect winds of 10-15 knots, temps about 80, and the wind direction perfect to allow us to go upriver or downriver on one tack.

As we were returning today I had my son turn the boat into the wind so I could go forward to flake the mainsail as my wife released the halyard. I left it on idle since we didn't want make any forward progress into the mud flats that lay just ahead. I complained that my son didn't have us pointed quite right, when he said, "It's kind of hard because the motor just cut out." WHAT? I went back to check, figuring it may be time to clean the carburetor since it probably stalled out on idle. The motor wouldn't start up. Just then I saw the problem:

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Not good! Just then I quickly went over the options in my head:
<ul><li>Sail into the fuel dock and do a repair on land</li><li>Call TowBoat US and sail around to buy time</li><li>Have my son sail around while I try to patch the line</li><li>Drop anchor and attempt a temporary patch</li></ul>
Thinking it might be a little crowded patching the gas line back by the motor while my son sailed the boat, I attempted to drop anchor. But the boat was blowing too far toward the mud flats as I let out the rode, and my son counted the depth down to 2.6 feet! (We draw 3'8", but the transducer is about a foot below the waterline.) So I quickly pulled the anchor back in and we proceeded to sail around. (It finally dawned on me that I could move the hose away from the helm to have room to make a repair while my son sailed.) I first tried wrapping with electrical tape, but the gas made the adhesive too gooey and the hose quickly broke again. So I did some wraps with duct tape to give more structural integrity, followed by wrapping with electrical tape to help seal it up. I knew the seal would not be perfect, but it was good enough to prime the motor, which would give me about 5 minutes of running time at idle (enough to get into the slip), and I could buy more time by re-priming as needed. Here's the result:

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We got back to the slip just fine.

After I got home I repaired the hose by chopping off the torn part and re-clamping the hose onto the original fitting. If I had realized how soft and pliable the hose material was, I could have done this repair right on the boat. (My Trophy boat has very hard, inflexible fuel line that is not nearly as easy to work with.)

A key learning from this is that I need to relegate this older fuel line as a spare, and get a new one that's hopefully fiber-reinforced to avoid a similar failure.

However, there is a problem with replacing fuel fittings for Honda outboards of this vintage. Somewhere around 2000 Honda switched from a fitting with two round pins to one with a round one (for fuel to pass through) and a rectangular one (that's used for locking). You can see aftermarket versions of the new style fittings here:

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Honda has stopped making the fittings with round locking pins, so getting a genuine Honda replacement requires replacing both parts of the fuel fitting - the one in the motor and the one on the end of the fuel line. I might consider that as an off-season upgrade, but for now I would prefer not to tear apart the motor while it's on the transom. Most aftermarket replacements for Honda also have the rectangular locking pins, so they can't be used right now. I did find an Attwood hose fitting with two round holes. It's a generic one that is also marketed for Yamaha, Mercury, and Chrysler/Force:

<center>[url="http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/product/Hose-Fitting---Tank-and-Engine-End-Yamaha-Brand-Engines-Quick-Connect"]

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This fitting is available from Amazon for only $5, but before I waste my money I was wondering if any of you have any experience with this part, or other aftermarket versions of the Honda fuel connector? Do you have comments about the round locking pin vs. the "new improved" rectangular pin?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/26/2012 20:51:16

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 03:53:39

Rick,

I have a 2006 Honda 9.9 and I am not positive but I thought the fuel line fitting did have two round holes , one for the fuel and the other for locking. But I would have to go check it out for sure. In any case, many years ago I had to replace my original Honda fuel line hose fitting (that came with the Honda 3 gallon tank and hose when I bought my 2006 Honda outboard). Interesting thing is that I recall it looking like the Attwood fitting you show above. It had a lever spring release as shown your photo. That original fitting had to be replaced because the plastic that surrounds the fuel line hole developed a micro-crack only visible if looking at the fuel line hole. I was having semi-hard time starting/running but I noticed some gas/water sheen and that's when I suspected the fitting. The marina mechanic spotted the micro-crack which I had not initially noticed. The replacement fitting they provided me resembled the 2nd photo you show above where there is no release lever but a sort of metal channel that is used as in replacement of a lever and spring. The channel serves as both the button to push and the metal imparts the spring action. I wanted to get the fitting with the lever as it would have been an exact replacement for what I had originally but all they had was the other fitting which I believe was a Moeller fitting.

The Moeller fitting worked okay for awhile but then the metal channel failed to provide the necessary release action and so I then fooled around with it by taking it off and bending the channel. That worked better for awhile but eventually gave me grief and so I then searched the web for a replacement. I wound up buying 2 addl fittings via the web and thought I was getting a design similar to my original lever type fitting but wound up with 2 Moeller fittings. (One to be used as a spare.) But so far, I have not had to use the spare. I have been careful as to how I press down on that channel release. I only press down on the end that provides the release and not the whole channel which I may have been doing when the marina gave me the initial replacement. So, the Mueller fitting, while it has that channel release which is not my favorite, has held up fine and I have not expereionced any micro-cracks on the end of the fitting as I did with the original fitting.

In answer to your question, yes I have had experience with replacement fittings but I cannot recall if my outboard has a rectangular pin for locking or if it is round. I may be on my boat this afternoon and can check but I would think it not worth replacing your design to the latest Honda design just for the sake of getting a "Honda" fitting. I would go with one of the substitutes. The non-Honda replacement fitting has for me held up for the past 2 years but I also have another new one that I am saving as a spare. I guess my thought at the time of ordering was that in case I developed another fitting problem, best to get two of them since the shipping cost was basically the same as for one. Bear in mind that while I am a believer in Honda and would normally stick to only Honda parts, Idid have micro-cracks on the original Honda fittign and have not experienced that with the aftermarket substitutes...but on first replacement had the other issue with the spring clamp issue. So...these fittings whether from Honda or not, are not prefect.

(I should indicate that I sail frequently all year and always disconnect the hose form the outboard after each sail outing. So, the fitting gets used frequently.)

Edited by - OLarryR on 08/27/2012 04:05:27

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 05:30:32

Thanks, Larry. That's just the kind of information that I need.

So apparently Honda's change to a rectangular locking pin happened sometime after 2006 - much later than the 2000 date that I had mentioned before.

The microcrack problem that you mention was mentioned a couple of times in searches I did to research this problem. I'll have to look at my original connector to see if it also has that problem - although I have not had any symptoms to indicate a problem.

I'm surprised that your original Honda connector had a springloaded lever. As you can see above, mine (which I believed to be genuine Honda original) appears to have the channel design.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 05:53:20

My 2002 Honda 9.9 has a fuel line connector with a square locking hole and a round fuel line hole.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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3449 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 09:16:13

Round or square locking hole ? I will be on my boat this afternoon and will check. I honestly cannot recall what it is, though, it is always staring me in the face everytime I hook up the hose !!

But yes it is true - I had the spring lever on the original eqmt and the channel spring on the aftermarket replacements. I liked the spring lever but now that I am careful to only press down the channel spring on the side that locks and unlocks the pin, I have had no problems with it and have not seen a repeat of the micr-crack issue. It is a hard hairline crack to spot unless looking for it and it was only on the original fitting that I had this issue.

I'll try and remember to check for a round or square locking pin today. But as John indicated, he had the square pin on a 2002, so I would expect then that my pin is also square....?

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 09:49:28

As I remember when I changed mine over to the new style the mounting hole for the connector screw was changed to a different location. It required my formulating a bracket to allow bolting the new connector onto the engine housing. You might check the location of the bolt hole in the picture of the new connector against your current connector. It was not a direct replacement.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 13:20:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 As I remember when I changed mine over to the new style the mounting hole for the connector screw was changed to a different location. It required my formulating a bracket to allow bolting the new connector onto the engine housing. You might check the location of the bolt hole in the picture of the new connector against your current connector. It was not a direct replacement.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for the warning! You've given a great example of why I don't want to change the engine fitting during prime sailing season. These things have a way of becoming much bigger jobs than expected. And getting to this part with the motor hanging off the transom is both awkward, and risks losing key parts to Poseidon. So I'm going to do everything I can to refit with the round locking post, and once I'm done with that will be even more reluctant to move to Honda's "upgraded" fitting.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 15:59:19

My connection does have a rectangular locking pin.
I just finished sailing. For a change, it was a great day !

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 08/28/2012 : 20:25:40

I stopped by my local Honda dealer today. He told me that the Honda fitting is the standard OMC connector, so I bought an OMC fuel line assembly from him. Very nice 5/16" tubing (IMO 3/8" is to thick to make the tight bends that I need) with fiber reinforcement to prevent the kind of failure that I experienced. It's also ethanol resistant, and I suspect my old hose may not be.

Unfortunately we got to the boat this evening and the fuel connector was way too tight to go on the motor. I'm going to have to take it back, or chop off the fitting and replace it if I find a better one (which I will consider doing because the hose is much nicer than most others I have seen).

I'll keep you posted on what I find that actually works. I'd still appreciate any suggestions others may have on this.

We did not let this problem prevent us from sailing this evening. We headed out with the old gas line, and had another beautiful sunset sail.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2012 : 18:46:39

Here's an update for anyone out there who ever needs to replace the Honda connector with round locking pin:

I bought two replacement connectors. I found a Tempo connector for Honda ($8 on ebay) and bought it right away, since I know from experience that Tempo makes great stuff and they're out of business (so their items can be in short supply). Unfortunately, I was a little hasty and realized afterwards that the hose barb is 3/8" instead of 5/16". It does fit the motor nicely, but I don't want to use 3/8" hose because it tends to flatten in tight bends. If any of you use 3/8" hose and want a spare connector, let me know.

After that I bought an Attwood connector for Mercury/Yamaha/Honda with 5/16" hose barb ($5 at Walmart). It fits very nicely. I plan to chop off the OMC connector from my new hose and replace it with this Attwood connector.

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/30/2012 18:47:17

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