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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

steering cable replacement

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/17/2003 : 11:31:54

For those who have followed the saga of the push pull failures and Edson's redesigned pull pull steering cables, here is another choice.

After expressing a couple of months ago that I would tackle a mod... the design is finished and I'm about to start work.

I'm not the first to go to an open cable system. In fact, it was done on a boat all ready equipped with the pull pull system. When I commented about doing the open cable system, the owner graciously sent pictures of his very well designed mod. That design I decided was technically beyond my ability as it required somewhat sophisticated machine shop work to make one of the parts and some aluminium welding and bending of heavier aluminum materiel. Again, his design was very good and accomplished his goal to make his steering system zero play and minimum drag.

I believe my design is technically simpler to build. My goal was mostly to save the big bucks for the Edson upgrade... but in part also to make a statement that I believe I've been stiffed a bit by a bad design and left hanging... so I will hang with my 500 dollars still in my pocket and not Edsons.

I hesitated, but will rant a bit about the Edson mod. Part of the reason I'm turned off by it is that Edson has available a unit that sits under the pedestal base and uses sheaves to turn the 90 degrees and then the cables lead aft. I realize why they didn't use it for the mod as it protrudes too far into the berth on the c250. But, I think it makes a statement, that using sheaves to turn the 90 deg is the right thing to do. I'm left with the nagging feeling that the new mod with cables making this turn is just more of the same propensity for eventual failure, increased drag and play in the steering system.

There are other goals. Among them, that the steering arm remain unloaded to enable easy rudder removal, to increase steering ratio, to be easy to set tension on the cable, to intrude minimally into the berth, to have easy access without pulling out the aft bulkhead, to be inexpensive and to be easy to build, install and repair quickly on the water.

Here is the drawing of that design... I will chronical construction and installation with pictures.

http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/images/steeringmods.jpg

btw...estimated cost is $50

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 01/17/2003 13:47:31

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2003 : 19:16:17

Finished making the components for the upgrade. Installation shouldn't be more difficult than the Edson upgrade. There are some notes on my website under mods.

http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/steeringcable.html

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 01/20/2003 07:56:19

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jfesi
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 18:05:15

Arlyn,

I've picked up the threat about the push pull Edson steering problem late in the game. The hole under my pedestal is a couple inches aft of the pedestal, so the curve on the cable is probably 110 - 115 degrees. Is this one of those "if it breaks" issues, or "when will it break" issues? My 250K is a 1999 model year. We bought it new, and have sailed it for three seasons. The steering has always been smooth, and I've seen no black dust or cable wear signs anywhere (but then the first mate did vaccuum and clean the aft compartment before I got back there last spring).

You can probably tell that I'm not looking forward to the prospect of a significant overhaul of the steering system. But if the alternative is a waiting disaster then the options appear slim. Thanks for your advice.

Alan Therrien
"Moonpenny" 250WK #418

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 21:07:01

Alan,

As someone pointed out and it seems reasonable, a failure is likely do to an installation error in kinking the cable too much. The kink ultimately wearing thru the jacket.

I'm not sure whether the dust is normal or infers excess wear. I just removed my old cable and the simplest way to do so was to cut it. Inspecting afterwards, the end towards the pedestal moved freely within the jacket, the rudder end had a lot of drag. I didn't notice any locations showing impending breakout.

I did notice that the chain had a lot of play in it. For the push pull system, the slack in the chain is adjusted out via two nuts under the two that hold the interior casting. Unfortunately, doing so requires disconnection from the transom bracket and feeding the unit out until the nuts can be accessed. Simply, adjutsting the two nuts pushes the idler wheel away from the wheel sprocket.

I think its a wait and see issue for most. My problem is that I haul 1,300 miles and have 2-3 weeks committed for a summer cruise and would not want a failure during that cruise. And I wanted to fix the play and increase the steering ratio.

I wonder if the single cable system was a new design for Edson about the time the c250 was released. I say that because of the need for upgrades very shortly. The first units were shipped with a single set screw to hold the cable low in the pedestal. The upgrade replaced the long set screw with two shorter ones so that one would serve as a lock to the other.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 23:44:33

Worked a little more this evening on the project and came up with a couple of more observations.

1. The black dust is not from the cable, but rather from the rubber grommet between the two large nuts at the transom mount. This was also a source of play as the grommet was fairly well worn out.

2. The cable is quite robust especially the inner cable. It is a stranded cable wound with a flat spiral. Next is a layer of nylon or some such materiel followed by a close nit layer of steel wires. The steel wires are longitudnal... they do not wrap the cable. Then the outer jacket layer. The outside jacket seems crucial as it holds the steel wires close together. If the jacket were damaged, allowing the steel wires to seperate, it's easy to see how the inner cable could be forced to pooch out between.

I could not discover the source of the drag in the rudder end of the cable. It was significant. One thought that comes to mind is that my boat lives on a trailer in Texas with the stern to the west sun. The compartment may have gotten hot enough to affect the nylon/composite layer.

Last, the bronze clevis and stainless pin were very tight. I had difficulty disconnecting it from the rudder arm. It certainly wasn't a point of play but may have contributed to drag.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 01/21/2003 08:11:40

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2003 : 19:50:28

Finished with steering cable project....trailer testing went great. As expected, the steering ratio went from 1/2 turn (center to rudder lock) to 1-1/8 turns. The ratio is 50% better at rudder amidship and more than 100% near rudder lock. There is no play. Installation was simple except crimping the cable locks in the aft berth <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>.

<img src="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/open%20wire%20steering.jpg" border=0>

More pics

http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/steeringcable.html

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.