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Brute force fin keel retrieval

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/07/2012 : 00:20:35

I've only heard one mention of the keel-haul method to land a fixed keel vessel onto her trailer. To me, it sounds perfect. Plan is to ready a 30' webbing strap around the keel and shackled forward. Then wet the trailer as far either the ramp or truck will allow. Using a 4 ton come-a-long, I'll ride the vessel over the carpeted bunks into the trailer's keel channel continuing to the bump stop, done! Here is my trailer, no provisions for a bow eye winch.

Molly Brown: 1967 Grand Banks 32-#34. Bronze, mahogany, teak, oak, with 120hp diesel to push all 10 tons. Currently an abuser of the bilge pump. Also... The Tall Rig Spirit: 1978, #973, Cast Fe Fin Keel on a Trailer

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2012 : 11:22:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rrick
 I've only heard one mention of the keel-haul method to land a fixed keel vessel onto her trailer. To me, it sounds perfect. Plan is to ready a 30' webbing strap around the keel and shackled forward. Then wet the trailer as far either the ramp or truck will allow. Using a 4 ton come-a-long, I'll ride the vessel over the carpeted bunks into the trailer's keel channel continuing to the bump stop, done! Here is my trailer, no provisions for a bow eye winch.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think you have a geat plan... Much better than just tugging on the bow eye!

I really like your trailer setup for guiding the keel onto the trailer, and also the tongue extension. Do you have any other pics of the keel guide setup?

Are your pads adjustable so you can lower them individually for sanding/painting during the haulout?

Do you have electric or hydraulic brakes? Mine are electric and I have never dunked the trailer because of it, but I am starting to consider it due to the costs of haulouts these days.....

Cheers!

Chuck

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2012 : 17:13:24

Chuck: Dunking in an Idaho lake is like washing yours off after it gets dunked, only much better!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2012 : 17:50:40

It depends on how much force you need to get it on the trailer. A trailer with rollers and swing arms is designed to lift the boat and roll it forward. Your trailer is designed to float the boat on and off, or to hoist it off. I'd go slow and easy. It looks like your trailer has a tongue extension, so that should help alot, unless your ramp is especially shallow.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2012 : 20:14:58

The trailer's extension is 10', not a lot for a float on/off design, so I'm excited for some positive opinions. You can see some bottom paint on the pads. Definitely will take some force to ride over that part. I'll spray the carpet in that area with some silicone.

No idea who built the trailer other than their previous project must have been a skyscraper. I do wish there were some hinges on the pads, I can always use a flatbed trailer. Correct about mountain spring washes on the electric brakes. It is 10 years old and all actuators have similar resistance measurements and work. Once trailed, the next stop is a boatyard crane next to the briny deep. I wouldn't want to start rust anywhere on the steel superstructure to save $170 crane launch.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2012 : 20:53:14

Instead of silicone on your pads you might try regular old dish soap. I keep a squirt bottle of it handy when retrieving the boat to lube up the six pads on our trailer.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2012 : 04:55:34

On balance, I think I'd pay the man $170. to hoist it onto the trailer, if it's only done once in the spring and once in the fall. If you really have to use "brute force" to get the boat on the trailer, your method will probably scrape your antifouling paint enough to require repainting under the pads each year, and that alone will be a hassle. I hate to save myself a little money while creating another job for myself.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2012 : 07:27:21

Dish soap sounds better, thanks. Loss of paint. If I sink the tow vehicle rear wheels completely, I can float the yacht into the cradle a foot short of the bow stop. At that point I could use brute force. $200 would be worth it eve, but the marina on my lake doesn't have a crane.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2012 : 08:19:37

I agree on soap and not silicone. Once you get silicone on the bottom of the keel, you may never get paint to stick there again.

If you can float her on to a foot short of "home", can you pull her out and then apply the brute force, so you're not trying to pull her up-hill? I've done that with some boats. If you have negative tongue weight with her a foot back, then maybe it's not a good idea.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/08/2012 08:23:10

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2012 : 09:40:54

Good ideas. I should plan on parking at the launch ramp for a bit and let the axles cool, truck doesn't have Bearing Buddies.

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Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2012 : 21:12:19

If you only have a 10 foot extension and need to go deeper, you can try strap launching/retrieving. I use a 20' towing strap to lower the trailer in deep enough to flow the boat on/off.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2012 : 06:57:58

I have to say, Unsinkable's blog is the greatest for retrieval/launch methodology of all of them I have found so far. Its worth a look. has me considering strap launching in the spring. I still don't have the guts to do a strap retrieval though.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2012 : 23:39:29

I do need to strap launch, too. I measured underwater concrete length 54' at 7' deep (8 degree slope). With tongue extended, I'm only 34'. Still, I doubt I'll land her on to the bow and keel stop, so I bought a 4"x30' polyester tow strap for a sling (not scratchy nylon) and a 2-ton come-along for a brute force snugging once she's pulled out. I bought 6' of high-test chain to sling around the A-frame on the trailer for the come-along attachment.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2012 : 12:36:43

Well I just fought this with mine... no tongue extesion, VERY steep ramp, and tried all of the above...
Eventually after come along on the keel, and drowning my poor truck (back doors on cab got water inside (YEP that deep)... the boat angle was bow down too far (or said another way, the winch was too high)... We eventually got the boat on the keel bunk about halfway, at which time I drove the truck up to the parking lot, and 10 guys, bounced the boat forward on the stands until it was where it needed to be. I am NOT doing that again.

When the ramp is plenty steep enough, the problem you run into is the trailer is at an extreme angle to the boat. YOU need the trailer still deeper yet, then it keeps the keel guides from working as well as if the ramp was less steep.

Here's the trailer I am dealing with (I know I am a capri, but I think we have similar problems):

Am also thinking about adding a roller to put directly under the bow, this would force the boat to ride up high enough to line up to the bow V notch by the winch.

Also my winch needs to be replaced.

Oh final note... I think too much pressure on the keel is a concern. You have to be wary of too much pressure on the trailing edge of the keel, it's fragile, and also if the boat stays still, and you put too much pressure on the keel, it can get ugly quick!

Edited by - shnool on 10/18/2012 12:39:45

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2012 : 20:36:24

Something is not working. Yacht and trailer are still at the launch ramp and I'm soaked. Tomorrow I bring a wetsuit and scuba gear, seriously.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2012 : 20:03:33

When we pulled out the C-25, swing keel on a fin keel trailer, we had to use a strap to get the trailer deep enough. Also, I used a 50 ft 3/8" line, basic yacht braid like Sta-Set, attached to the winch stand under the winch, which I led back to the genoa winches. We would snug up each line to help keep the boat centered on the trailer and to keep her from sliding backwards as we pulled out of the water.
One other suggestion, consider replacing the rubber bow V-pad and any rollers with the semi-clear yellow poly pads and rollers, and add the round end caps to the bow V-pad bracket. They protect the bow from getting scraped by the metal bracket.

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rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2012 : 20:31:04

I got it. In daylight, it was easy to see where the keel strap was hanging up on the rear of the bunks. Use of a boat hook during daylight and adding another, cheaper, webbing loop to the original 30' x 4" made the operation possible. Bowlines were tied on the new 30' x 2" strapping through the sewn loops of the 4" strap (the sling), preserving integrity in the original sling. Knots not only reduce webbing strength by 50%, but also permanently deform the material. I originally confused polyester with polypropylene and thought the material floats and needed heavy shackles to sink and loop the keel, wrong.

With a continuous loop formed, brought forward between the two front supports, I gently pulled the yacht to the keel stop by come along attached to the trailer hitch. With tension held, the trailer yacht combo pulled out of the water fitted properly.

Never again now that I know how to do it

. I'm off to the ocean, where a crane will keep my trailer out of the salt water.

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