Association Forum - HMS Bounty may be lost to hurricane Sandy

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

HMS Bounty may be lost to hurricane Sandy

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2013 : 11:55:49

As others have said before, I admire the amazing professionalism of the Coast Guard rescue crews of the C-130 and the helicopters. At the end of the USCG rescue video that was linked in this story, I saw that 3 of the survivors were not wearing survival suits as they were taken off the helicopter! One of the crew was wearing yellow foul weather gear. The video showed that at least 2 of the survivors were indeed wearing what looked like red, full-body, survival suits as they left the helicopter.

How could some of these sailors go to sea and not take this basic safety equipment? Were they saving money on this stuff, too?

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2013 : 20:24:53

According to the outside mag article, they all donned survival suits, so my guess is that the Coasties removed the three cited such that they could better check vitals.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2013 : 21:39:53

...and if they were injured, as we know some were, the Coasties may have removed the suits with scissors in order to assess and stabilize the injuries. That's common practice even with normal clothing.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/14/2013 21:40:38

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2013 : 22:11:32

BTW, as part of the Masters license class, I was one of three chosen to don a survival suit. The goal is under 2 minutes. I'm sure I could get better with a little more practice, but I came in 15-20 seconds over unassisted.

It is freaking difficult!

Sten

Edited by - redviking on 02/14/2013 22:12:22

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2013 : 07:33:45

OK, that makes sense that the suits may have been cut off to help diagnose the crew's injuries.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2013 : 14:32:49

More damning testimony.

http://gcaptain.com/rotted-frames-bounty/

http://gcaptain.com/testimony-reveals-complexity-bounty/

Sten

Edited by - redviking on 02/15/2013 17:12:00

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2013 : 19:32:34

I got a similar explanation of the curvature I saw in the keel ("hogging") when the Mystic Seaport lifted their whaler, Charles W. Morgan, out for a multi-year restoration. (The hull has more floatation force amidships than in the bow or stern, so eventually it bends upward in the middle.) When talking about the Bounty, I recall his comments that the framing and other materials were not those that would be used now or in the 18th or 19th centuries if a boat were meant to last. Bounty's condition in 2012 was no surprise to him, and I suspect he would say she wasn't worth the rebuild that would be necessary, since she was a substandard reproduction--a movie prop--to begin with.

But all of that is secondary, as pointed out in testimony, to the fact that (1) a crew's safety is more important than a vessel's safety, and (2) the crew would unquestionably been safer "in bed," in port with a huge, complex storm approaching head-on. Her structural condition only made the decisions that much more appalling. We've talked here before about sailing to a "schedule"... Here's Exhibit I.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2013 : 06:28:31

http://gcaptain.com/sins-of-omission/

Well it ended. The hearings that is. I hope the Coasties adopt new policies regarding these silly dockside attractions. I am even more pissed after watching the hearings than I was before. Look, while many here may consider our sport to be just that, a sport not dissimilar to riding a motorcycle or rock climbing, safety at sea is a responsibility that is a matter of ultimate importance regardless of whether you are oblivious or wanna take yourself out.

Captain Walbridge took himself out, plus one, but he also damaged the profession, the sport, and the like of sailing. I can't wait to toss a few more hot embers into his pit with the shovel Satan gives me. Seriously kids, safety is always our first priority.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2013 : 14:48:28

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2013 : 00:03:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...Seriously kids, safety is always our first priority.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...especially when other people's lives are at stake. This guy was way too impressed with himself. Of course, it's big news only because the boat was the Bounty, but actually it wasn't. It was a piece of junk--a prop--originally built to be burned at the conclusion of shooting the movie.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

True, but ultimately it sailed 12,000 miles for the shoot. And it did the Nova Scotia to Florida traveling circus for years. It would have made the trip under optimal weather. So will my C&C39. It may have weathered a decent storm as would have my C&C39.

But if I knowingly headed into a hurricane with a badly leaking stuffing box, a sketchy rudder post, leaking ports and hatches, and a finicky bilge pump, I am a fool. Deduct all known preventable causes of extreme water intrusion on my vessel other than the one I forgot, thru hull failure, and you still have a well found C&C39 that is a bluewawa boat, OK, even a Pacific Seacraft, or waterever, that is gonna mayday themselves in a hurricane. One problem begets another and the one problem you ignored will fail when less than optimal.

weather for sailors, like pilots, is a mandatory restriction.

sten

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2013 : 07:20:32

<< originally built to be burned >>

I blame Brando....

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2013 : 08:48:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...weather for sailors, like pilots, is a mandatory restriction.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...except that pilots, unlike sailors, can evade or run from weather. A sailor making a passage has one choice: leave or wait. After he leaves, it's very possible unexpected "stuff" will happen, at which point he'll want to be in a well-found Pacific Seacraft (with a drogue), and not a leaky wooden hull with rotting frames and planks held together by corroded fasteners. But Sandy wasn't unexpected--she was magnificently forecast, given her complexity.

Last week, by comparison, it was interesting to watch as the rain/slush storm passed through here, the Gulf Stream off New England literally lit up in red on the weather radar. Our uneventful "storm" apparently became mayhem out there. You wouldn't wanna have been there!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/26/2013 08:50:56

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2013 : 09:04:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << originally built to be burned >>

I blame Brando....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...except Brando didn't have a master's license, probably knew less about ships than I do

, (yes, he sailed in Tahiti...) and wasn't alive to participate in any of these decisions--starting with not restoring the decaying ship and ending with sailing her into a "super-storm" with an innocently trusting crew.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/26/2013 09:04:29

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2013 : 21:36:02

Here's the story, based on the USCG proceedings and interviews with surviving crew. Quite a read... (Three parts, multiple chapters each.)

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2013/reports/bounty/

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.