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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/29/2012 : 05:47:26

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/29/14775512-17-abandon-stricken-ship-hms-bounty-off-nc-coast?lite

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 05:52:38

I don't understand why they were out there, they've had many days of warning that this storm was coming.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 06:00:15

Really sucks. I hope it somehow survives.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 06:20:17

Talk about a new feature at the beach ( if it makes it to shore )

New dive site... And the boat was for sale. Sounds fishy.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 17:56:44

Sounds stupid to me. Unfortunately it sounds like two crewman paid with their lives.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 18:15:41

just read an article, one woman of the missing two was found dead, the captin still missing. God Bless her soul, and prayers for finding the captain still.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fow.ly%2FeRQEK&h=JAQFqE2IKAQHs5agtHJHHhiQv2-qrgLf4kEPGzJIQq6YNRA&s=1

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 20:03:20

Strange....her name was Christian....and she was a direct descendent of Fletcher.....

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5368 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2012 : 20:32:28

This was the same boat that I photographed in Bridgeport's Captain's Cove Seaport. I posted a few photos in August.

HMS Bounty in Cap'ns Cove

What series of bad decisions led to someone thinking: "Hey, let's take a cruise down the Atlantic coast while the baddest freakin' hurricane in all creation is coming up the coast?"

Had to be some kind of story involving WAAAAAAY more chutzpah than good sense.

To think that a few other people said,"hey yeah!, good thinkin'!"

And they put 17 souls at risk.

Edited by - Voyager on 10/30/2012 16:22:26

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2012 : 09:09:02

Sandy had already devastated Haiti and the Dominican Republic when they apparently set off down the coast!!! Unbelievable for a professional ship captain!

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2012 : 09:19:47

Maybe the cap'n forgot that the term "hurricane hole" strongly indicated that you seek shelter in a storm!

You know, once I saw a flick about a self-righteous captain who led his crew through dangerous waters and life-threatening conditions. Then, under extreme duress, the crew decided to institute an immediate change in leadership. What was the name of that story?

Well... ... ... ... ... I don't remember!!! What was it?

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2012 : 09:40:57

And that bit about; "Sips are safer at sea!" Well maybe if the alternative is to be tied at a dock directly adjacent to the ocean but you're MUCH safer if you can get get inland and tie that baby up to a proper dock. If I'm not mistaken that's what the US military did. There was also a comment that equated skirting a hurricane with a tall ship to dodging a tornado with a canoe that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2012 : 13:09:42

I'm sorry to read in today's Washington Post that the skipper and one crew member were lost overboard during the rescue in mountainous seas. May they rest in peace.

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 10:00:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 Sandy had already devastated Haiti and the Dominican Republic when they apparently set off down the coast!!! Unbelievable for a professional ship captain!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That decision seems to have cost him his life, a crewman's life, and the vessel.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 11:55:28

They all had survival suits which was good. Personal EPIRBs may have saved them all.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2012 : 19:29:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 They all had survival suits which was good. Personal EPIRBs may have saved them all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

18 foot seas at time of rescue. Modern Inflatable Pfd's used in Europe have clear spray hoods because in heavy seas you can drown even while face up... Missing the raft and their chances diminished instantly. Captain forgot the rule about stepping up into the raft. Also, apparently one crewmember was able to text and blog while boarding the raft. Too close to land...

Makes my blood boil. We all know schedules are a dangerous thing. He should have spidered out with every bit of hook he had, engaged the engines and driven into the storm. Sorry, but as some of you know, I have no tolerance for poor seamanship. It is sad that the Captain died, but he and the foundation have blood on their hands.

Sten

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 04:00:08

Sten,
They lost power, and could no longer keep up with the water coming in without the powered pump.

it seems the captain misinterpreted safer at sea: that is only if a secure port is unavailable. They had an enggement in FLA? that could have easily been canceled or delayed and all parties involved would understand in face of a hurricane

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 05:28:14

Yes, I know they lost power. But they should have had a backup for providing power to the bilge pumps. I have a Honda Generator wired to a 3600 you pump on my little 39 foot C&C. The Captain of an Oyster 62 decided that idea was a good one and it saved him and his wife in raging seas 300 nm from Greece when a thru hull backing plate gave way.

Preparation is key. Prudence is very key. A quick check of weather on a tv, VHF, passageweather.com and the like would've ended the trip for all but the most stubborn.

I've been around Cape Hatteras a couple of times. For those of you who haven't been there, I can assure you that even on a good day conditions are dicey. Not a trip to make in view of a storm that devasted Cuba and other islands. From my viewpoint, Satan has a new bunkie. Sorry, I feel the same way about the Heart of Sailing jerk who overloaded his MAC 26 and lost two souls...

Sten

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 05:50:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 Talk about a new feature at the beach ( if it makes it to shore )

New dive site... And the boat was for sale. Sounds fishy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Insurance in almost all cases null and void if you sail into a named storm.

Sten

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2012 : 08:15:09

The standard line is to withhold judgement until the formal reports are made public. But I gotta tell you I got a sick feeling in my stomach after watching the video on the Sailing Anarchy site:

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

If the video's not there any more, you can watch it here instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BNDneMuO7-U

I did not watch the whole thing, just the part starting around 10:30. I have a sick feeling that this guy's cavalier attitude toward hurricanes led to his own death and that of one of his crew. But I know I'm supposed to reserve judgement. I guess it's still possible that the nature of the malfunction might have doomed the ship even in better weather.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2012 : 21:46:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Makes my blood boil. Sorry, but as some of you know, I have no tolerance for poor seamanship. It is sad that the Captain died, but he and the foundation have blood on their hands... Sorry, I feel the same way about the Heart of Sailing jerk who overloaded his MAC 26 and lost two souls...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">X 2...and about the guy with his sport-boat in the 2011 Chicago-Mackinac Race. (He also killed one crew besides himself.)

We're all free to take our own risks, but we're not free to call ourselves Captains and then ignore the most basic principles of keeping our crews and passengers safe. Sandy's expected strength and track were no secrets. Bounty should have been hiding someplace like Baltimore's Inner Harbor off the Chesapeake.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2012 : 07:55:04

I hear and to some point agree with all of the above, however I do not think everyone should jump on the bandwagon that these guys were just a bunch of careless, reckless sailing thrill seekers.

Looking at the 30 min interview from this past summer and thinking about the Bounty not as a private pleasure craft but as a commercial vessel, it appears to me that the Captain and presumably the crew had significant heavy weather experience and my guess -- and only a guess -- is that they were trying to get out of harms way by heading south, away from the ports that Sandy eventually made landfall in and destroyed.

Many coastal commercial as well as cruise ships were also caught in the storm with many headed for New York and Baltimore ending up, days later and after going through the storm, in Boston with passengers telling stories, most of which about how well the various crew(s) and ship(s) handled it all. Very possibly Bounty viewed the risk the same way; the only safe port was a long sail, in their case, south.

A final note; my father during WWII took his flat bottomed 280 ft LST through three separate typhoons in the pacific. Yes, it was war and yes, he had his orders. His crew were all green recruits and 90 day wonders. He always said it was worse than being shot at in the Atlantic, but far better than being in port where other ships received significant damage.

We'll never know the real story, but there are always at least two sides . . . .

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2012 : 09:49:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 We'll never know the real story, but there are always at least two sides . . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Agreed, up to a point... But I suspect we will hear the real story--the rest of the crew survived, and they'll be answering lots of questions. I can think of a few...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2012 : 13:14:41

Although significantly larger than the Bounty, when I was in the Navy, every time some nasty stuff was headed towards our port, we'd get underway to ride it out at sea.

As to the Bounty, heading out to sea might have seemed to be the safer option for the ship, but it's definitely not the safest option for the crew.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2012 : 13:54:48

Just adding some gas to this fiery discussion:

I wonder if they had succeeded in riding the storm out and came back to port if the news would have been: Brave Captain and competent crew save the HMS Bounty...

There are many sides to every story. Remember the NASA Challenger incident, sometimes there are bigger hands forcing down on us.

I Lost a ship, a fine 1966 45´Philip Rhodes Sloop anchored during a storm for being alone and not having the experience to ride the storm out sailing the boat away from from shore, not a pleasant sight: I watched my boat become aground and get dismantled by each pounding wave. Next time, I will take it out... Who´s right? We´ll never know, it will always depend on the outcome.

No matter what and why it happens I will always grieve sailors and boat lost to the seas...

Cheers all

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2012 : 14:11:43

I agree that ships are often safer at sea. But this was a wooden planked vessel. The generator gave out from what I understand and I am guessing that the water intrusion was from a plank giving way. No way to fix that at sea. Cape Hatteras was going in the wrong direction. Heading north would have been a better idea. Heading east would have been better. Heading to Baltimore even better.

I too would consider heading out to sea on my vessel if caught in that storm rounding Hatteras. I would have turned around and ran with it. Bare poles and a drogue. I have been in 18-20 foot seas on SV Lysistrata. Not pretty, but doable obviously. Sliding sideways off one wave was scary, that trough was deep. But my girl went around twice with the previous owner and I trust her in such conditions. A fifty year old replica, eh, not so much.

I'm sorry the crew member died. She was a beautiful woman who didn't deserve to die. The foundation has been trying to sell her for some time, so I'm sure there is a reason that they wanted her moved. Surprised the crew hasn't spoken publicly.

So sad, so stupid.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2012 : 10:07:49

Jean Andre: At least you were able to watch as your boat was destroyed and can tell us about it. Two souls on the Bounty weren't so lucky. Insurance can replace a replica ship or repair damage done in port.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/04/2012 10:09:35

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