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opinions please!

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jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/22/2003 : 15:03:59

Im having the Jellyfish hauled for a new bottom job. I plan to have her repainted/gellcoated from the rub rails down because of years of scuffs on the sides. I am considering having her done in navy blue, would I regret this in future years. I saw a C32 in Navy and boy did she look fine. suggestions???? of course I would have to redo my sail covers to navy but it is time to replace them anyway.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 15:45:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am considering having her done in navy blue, would I regret this in future years.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I've noticed on hull colors other than white or off white that if the shine isn't there, they look really withered, whereas on a white boat, that doesn't seem to be the case. What I am trying to spit out is that you might have to keep the hull wax and the proverbial "Soft cloth" within arms reach. Might mean more Waxing? I'll be interested to see what other owners say about this.

I too love the look of a Navy Hulled boat (its called 8th Ohio here in Cleveland if anyone has seen it, think the owner is a judge) anyway, There always seems to be a fresh coat of wax on that thing.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 16:07:03

Everything I've read about refinishing fiberglass recommends painting over gelcoating. Gelcoat works so well originally because it's laid up wet with the other layers of glass and resin. Nice chemical bond. Gelcoating over set gelcoat would only have a mechanical bond as good as the sanded/scratched surface could provide, which isn't very good, considering that gelcoat is fairly brittle.

As for color, if you are in a hot climate the interior would be warmer with darker colors. And, as Duane said, dark colors seem to show their age faster.

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 16:09:10

Also consider the likelihood that your next set of scuff marks will be white--the color under the pretty new blue. But what the hell... You've probably gotten better at driving, so go for it--and post some pictures so we can all drool!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 17:58:53

Our late-lamented C22 "Bluewind" was painted with navy blue Emron (when it first appeared on the market). Boy, was she pretty! That stuff just glowed! Unfortunately we only had her for 6 months after the paint job so I can't say how well the paint lasted over time.
Derek

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 18:34:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I am considering having her done in navy blue, would I regret this in future years?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Yes. In my opinion, dark colors do not age as gracefully as near whites. Obviously dark colors also absorb much more heat from sunlight as well.

-- Leon Sisson

P.S. I forgot to mention, I've owned three small boats (8',14',19') with dark green painted topsides, and two (22'&25') with near white gelcoat. I really like the look of dark green, but repainting that 19' wooden Lightning daysailor every few years was a real pain. On larger boats I'll take the light gelcoat deck and topsides, and save the dramatic dark colors for the canvas work.

-- Leon

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 01/22/2003 18:47:42

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 21:57:39

Topside paint... I have two words for you... well 1 acutally, Easypoxy..

I used it on the V23.. it is really nice stuff to work with. I call it 'Tom Sawyer' paint as it is so much fun to work with you could charge admission to handle the brush.

I could recoat the V23 in an hour or two. Don't think that a C25 will take much longer.

It works best with one person on a foam roller and another person coming right behind with a foam brush to make sure things stay to a wet edge and are 'laying down' properly.

With just a little bit of practice... it comes out very nice. Am contemplating doing my hull in a dark green. Sure, I'd probably have to touch it up every spring.. but it sure would be pretty on the water.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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rcraig
1st Mate

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USA
28 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 09:08:32

Hey Jelly....
Had to toss this bit o' info into the mix. Fiberglass, gelcoat, etc is what I do to keep steady stream of 'boat units' coming in. I just want to throw in a word of caution about re-gelcoating the EXTERIOR of your prize.

Technically, gelcoat is nothing more than a pigmented resin. It has no real mechanical or strength properties to speak of. So what was said about scuffs & scratches exposing as white are true. Remember, the gelcoat, if done properly, is only going to be .018'' - .022'' thick. It can be applied thicker, but things start to get ugly w/ the application process. That is strike one.

Strike two is, gelcoat really needs to be 'closed in' for it to cure correctly. That is, it needs to exotherm to allow all the little chemical components to cross-link. This requires a temporary coating over the newly applied gelcoat, something like PVA (Polyvinyl Alcohol) which is washed off later. Then, after (hopefully) curing, it is typically rather porous, or uneven, requireing much sanding, then polishing to achieve that desired luster.

Also keep in mind you will need to use a Vinyl Ester based gelcoat to act as the proper moisture barrier against the dreaded osmosis. And make sure it has UV inhibitors for obvious reasons.

Don't get me wrong, if you have the time and $$$ to invest, it's a great way to go, but just be aware of what it will take to get from ugly duckling to gracious swan.

Best of luck

Richard C
77 SR/FK (as yet to be named)

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 11:23:30

On my last boat, I considered painting the hull that dark rich blue like you see on those classic yachts, because the waterline stripe and the 5" stripe beneath the rub rail were that baby blue color that, for some reason, was popular long ago.

As I was talking this over with a co-worker/sailor who had painted his hull, he offered that, "once you paint your boat, you are always painting your boat!" He mentioned the same reasons as were mentioned earlier, like dark hulls and dings, age,...etc, but I still wanted to lose the baby blue so I decided to only paint the stripes and leave the rest of the hull gelcoat white. I prepped and painted the stripes, and I must say, it look awesome when it was done and even better when it was in the water.

<img src="http://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/00A/03/EC/60/7A/wX2RyFvDkuacDNb4RSu32fFHUvK4MpZP0180.jpg" border=0>

At the end of the season when I hauled out, I noticed that through normal use I had a chip here, a scratch there, a little gouge here,...and out from beneath these imperfections rose that baby blue color that I so wanted to be rid of. Anyway, I still had some leftover paint, so it was just a matter of touching up those areas with the dings, scratches, and gouges. Well, after a couple of seasons, the original paint started to age(fade) and my nice dark blue touch-ups were starting to contrast with the duller original coat of paint and it looked like it was going to need a complete going over to get it back to what it looked like when I first painted it.

Well, before I got the chance to repaint, I sold the boat, but I was glad that I did as my friend had advised and only painted the stripes, because his words ("once you paint your boat, you are always painting your boat"), rang true. Because if I had painted the entire hull, it would have required considerably more maintenace and in our shortened sailing season, and even shorter frantic pre-splash period, time was one thing that was in short supply.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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1772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 11:46:54

... Well, before I got the chance to repaint, I sold the boat, but I was glad that I did as my friend had advised and only painted the stripes, because his words ("once you paint your boat, you are always painting your boat"), rang true. Because if I had painted the entire hull, it would have required considerably more maintenace ... - Don

A few months ago I started a thread asking "what was on my gelcoat." Well, it turned out to be paint, and what a MESS it was quickly becoming. I took Steve Madsen's advice--right down to buying the same kind of commercial polisher he uses--and I'm really glad I did (even though it took me five full days, over 30 razor blades, and a gallon of gelcoat-friendly paint stripper to get the old paint off and to polish the underlying gelcoat).

The good news is, the hull looks like it's supposed to now. In fact, if I hadn't run out of time (I had a deadline to get the boat in the water), I think I could have made the hull look practically new.

Yes, there are some scratches and gouges on the hull ... that's obviously what a previous owner was trying to hide with the paint. I'd rather patch the scratches in the gelcoat and keep the gelcoat. I agree with Steve ... it sure is easier to keep gelcoat looking good.

BTW, if you'd like to see Steve's comments, here is a link to that thread:http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2162

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 13:56:24

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

. . . because of years of scuffs on the sides . . .

Dan,
Your boat also seems awfully new to be considering painting or even re-gelcoating. I'm afraid if you opt for paint you'll become a slave to it. I'd be willing to make a hefty wager that you could give your hull that "wet" look with No. 7 rubbing and polishing compounds applied with a commercial grade polisher, followed with Collinite's #870 Fleetwax.

. . . I am considering having her done in navy blue, would I regret this in future years . . .
My first larger boat was a Catlaina 22 which had a Tangerine hull. This is the hull that started my experimentation with products and equipment. Even using what I found to be the best combination of cleaners and waxes the hull would still show signs of oxidation by season's end. There's a beautiful Navy C-25 at our Marina - but it came from the factory that way. I think he uses Penetrol (sp?) on his gelcoat which probably wouldn't give the same results on paint.
Covering a white hull with Navy paint? After about 6 months I think you'll regret it the rest the time you own the boat. Not that you said you are, but I wouldn't even ask anyone who stands to gain from painting your boat their opinion as it will most likely be biased toward moving money from your pocket to theirs.
I've always admired the darker hulls myself Dan, but after maintaining one I said the next boat would have a light colored hull. An expertly maintained hull really stands out and gets lots of kudos - no matter the color.
Good luck.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

[url="http://catalina25-250.org/photo0.htm/"]<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/ode075.jpg" border=0>[/url]

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 14:31:18

"A few months ago I started a thread asking "what was on my gelcoat." Well, it turned out to be paint, and what a MESS..." - Buzz

I've seen more BAD paint jobs, than good!

At my marina, there is a 1976 Columbia 26 for sale by the original owners that has been painted(a putrid brownish pink color), and repainted, and repainted,...and it looks absolutely dreadful. The paint looks like it was slopped on over dirt and paint chips. This boat has been for sale for over three years now, and I don't think it will ever sell.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

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jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 17:55:07

thanks guys now I am really confused! she is scuffed up pretty bad due to a storm and a concrete sea wall. leaning toward going back to orginal color. need to figure out a plan of action soon.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 23:47:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
thanks guys now I am really confused! she is scuffed up pretty bad due to a storm and a concrete sea wall. leaning toward going back to orginal color. need to figure out a plan of action soon.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dan,
I was going to ask what your definition of "scuff" was. Interestingly enough, there's a guy also in Florida that use to work for Catalina and Morgan who is now a freelance service tech (and does a lot of warranty work for Catalina.) When he reinforced my transom three years ago he applied new gelcoat. The transom still looks better than the rest of the hull and shows absolutely no sign of deterioration.
He spends winters at home and starts north in the spring servicing boats along the east coast all summer. He a craftsman in the truest sense. If you'd like I can get you his phone number.

Edited by - OJ on 01/24/2003 11:47:55

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