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Catalina 250 Specific Forum

When it gets too windy....

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Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/22/2003 : 15:11:31

Just wondering if there's a consensus of opinion as to the order that one would use in reducing sail area in progressively windy conditions on a new C250WK...?

Al Maniccia
SeaWolf C250WK #698
Marina Del Rey, CA

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 18:00:13

Hi Al

The main on a c250 with a 110% jib is the power sail. When it starts to get windy enough and start over powering the boat the main should be reefed first. If still over powered roll the jib in to 90% or so.

If the wind continues to build reef the main to the 2nd reef point and if needed roll in the jib some more.

This is the way I do it. I sure we will see different opinions on the topic. You want to keep both sails up as long as possible without being of powered. The boat sail better when the sails are balanced.

There has been some discussion on this forum about when it is necessary to sail with one sail, which one you should use. Some say main only some say jib only.

Some say the c250 rig is not made to sail with just the jib.

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

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Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 19:15:59

I don't remember where I read it, but the general rule I follow is if there is too much weather helm, reef the main. If there is too much heal, roll up some of the genoa. I always reef the main if the wind is 15 knots or more. I used to have lots of trouble by not reefing when I should...before I left the dock.

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

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marzluff
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 20:28:13

There is a recent article in Sail re when to reef and in what order. I have a 135 foresail, and with that increased area, It contributes to the power of the boat considerably. I tend to double reef the main 1st, then the genoa. I frequently sail with only the main reefed and a nervous hand on the tiller. The boat feels balanced, rarely heels more than 20 degrees, and is in good enough control that my wife rarely screams at me.

Mike

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 23:36:06

Al, Many of us I think will agee... I have sailed only on the main, and only on the jib/Genoa....It is better to reef the main according to conditions and balence the boat with enough jib to keep from being over powered. This also has a LOT to do with local sailing conditions, we all sail in several different enviornments so you tend to get solutions for a particular inland lake or coastal area,
Steve Steakley

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2003 : 17:09:12

Al...I don't put a reef in until its a steady 17Kt on the meter. Steve is right when in comes to conditions in your area. On the high Idaho mt. lake we sail, conditions are never the same for more than 1/2 hour at a time. In the couse of a short race, you can experience a calm floater to steady 10k and 25kt gust fronts. As a consequence, I rarely reef the main, usually because by the time I get it reefed and trimmed (and we can do it quickly) the condition that caused it is gone!. When it's gusty I just ease the main and if I think it's gonna blow for more than a few minutes, I'll bring in the jib to calm things down. We sail the boat at 20 degrees max. You'll get to the point where you can see and anticipate the gusts and ease the main before they hit to keep the boat on a constant heel. Just get used to yelling "YEE HAA"!!
Andy Anderson
CSCO Kid C250WB #163
MHYC McCall Idaho

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2003 : 18:59:53

Sometimes ya gotta throw the rules out.

While I have posted in the past that I believe it's better to run under main compared to jib, this past summer presented the following circumstances.

We were two days from closing out the cruise and hadn't had a good sailing day. This day's offering was a 65 mile broad reach in 25-28 mph winds with 4-5' seas.

We left the channel for open water between Michigan's upper and lower Peninsulas and not long after clearing land were overpowered under the double reefed main. Heeling wasn't the issue... keeping it from broaching was. The quartering seas would impact the rudder and if it hadn't been veined to the oncoming sea, would cause a broach.

Not wanting to motor, I dropped the main and we ran the distance under jip only with amounts from 50-110% depending on winds. I did however keep boat speed conseravtive at 5.5 mph to avoid overstressing the forestay.

Giving thought to it later, I wondered if a warp would have allowed sailing under the double reefed main and the hammer down on boat speed. Has any one tried this? If similar conditions occur again, I will.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2003 : 19:51:19

Arlyn... I've sailed with one reef (we only have one) and reduced jib many times. When it's really snotty, I might try different set ups until one feels right. There are just too many variables...and face it we really don't see situations like you describe that often...thank God! There is no right or wrong way because everybody's experience and comfort level is different.... The only right way is the safe way ...for you and souls on board. I'm much more conservative when the 1st mate is on board because I don't like the yelling!!
Andy Anderson
CSCO Kid
MHYC McCall Idaho

Edited by - andy on 01/24/2003 19:54:11

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2003 : 21:29:40

I have sailed with the jib only and I prefer to do that. I feel it is easier to dump the jib when overpowered, especially sailing a reach or a run. It is hard to dump the full battened main.

I also try to simulate a mainsail by tighening the topping lift and putting some pressure on the mainsheet. I also adjust the adjustable back stay. I think that if the Hunters and other boats with no backstay can sail down wind and the spreaders on our boats are set up similar to those, we should be able to tighten the back stay to keep some pressure off the forestay enough to sail under jib alone when necessary.

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2003 : 23:26:18

Using the backstay tensioner only lessens the load on the forestay to the degree that it flattens the sail. The stay carries whatever load the sail presents.

My reason for limiting speed, is that while running or broad reaching under jib alone, once hull speed is reached, loads will increase sharply as there is little heel to disipate extra drive. I believe a buffer zone should be maintained to insure staying below hull speed. If winds are really gusty, reaction time to adjust the headsail will be too slow and the use of jib only would be risky.

btw, a backstay tensioner is not normally a part of a radically raked spreader setup as its use is limited to depowering the jib only. The exception to this is the use of a running baby stay where it will also depower the mainsail. But, it is a rather exotic item and would only be found on a c250 setup for cruising.

http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/c250mods/babystay.html

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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jkountz
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2003 : 22:16:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Giving thought to it later, I wondered if a warp would have allowed sailing under the double reefed main and the hammer down on boat speed.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

What's a warp?

Edited by - jkountz on 01/25/2003 22:17:57

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2003 : 09:28:11

A warp is simply a long line (perhaps a spare anchor rode) tailed astern. It's a variation of a sea anchor or drogue in that no resistance object is used on the end as its purpose is to offer only a limited resistance to slow the boat slightly or to assist in settling the helm. The effect on the helm could be different depending on which stern quarter its secured. It has the effect of adding latteral resistance aft.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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