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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

Capri Chainplate

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Fleet
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151 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2013 : 03:52:00

Does anyone adjust their chainplates? If so, under what conditions?

Fleet
Kamikaze
1983 Hull #397
Lake Guntersville, AL

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/08/2013 : 04:46:48

Unless I am missing something, I don't see a way to adjust mine. Pictures, cause maybe you can enlighten me... On my 22, they attached like shrouds, below deck, right to the stringers in the layup... With turnbuckles. Honestly a smart arrangement for a racer. Of course it made sleeping on the quarter-berths uncomfy. so do tell if your's are adjustable... In these pictures, you see mine are just bolted through the bulkheads.

If you have a picture of what yours look like. Honestly I could only see doing it to keep support up below decks.

PS: I think my extended "projects" need to be to replace the bulkheads forward and aft, with something more substantial (and waterproof). Then replace all my chainplates. The prior owner said the rigging was 2 years old (and only had 3 day sails on them)... but I doubt that included chainplates.

Edited by - shnool on 02/08/2013 04:51:22

joearcht
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Response Posted - 02/08/2013 : 07:26:55

I don't see any adjustment on my boat either, but you can certainly adjust the shroud tension via a turnbuckle above the chain plate.
There are several articles floating around from sail makers regarding this subject. As I recall, once the main shroud is adjusted correctly it is pretty much set, but the forward shrouds can be tuned for wind and sea conditions, i.e. tighter in heavier weather. I think the aft shroud controls mast bend and is set per your sail maker's spec's.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/08/2013 : 10:00:17

Joe/Steve... Question for you both, and Fleet if you'll allow me to hijack some... Rigging setup...
Best I can tell, you look for 8-12 inches of rake with this rig, in column. (if you have time I don't) add rake for heavier winds. Then adjust forward/aft lowers to snug... with no backstay. Then ease up a whole turn on the forwards. Verify you have tension on the forwards lowers as you adjust backstay to it's normal position. Then adjust adjust aft lowers to snug with backstay still on. This should give you snug forward lowers and tight aft lowers, with no backstay, and your aft lowers will losen up (with the headstay tightening) as you crank on the backstay which in turn should losen the aft lowers.

This is what I did last year to ballpark it, and it seemed to work pretty well. From there I tweaked... I know I was at almost 12 inches rake by the end of season as we got more winds with cooler weather. I think I started with 6-8

Either of you have any tips for better results than that? Or an easier way to get close on the first shot? Loos numbers maybe?

I know fractional guys go all nuts with bend/prebend, and backstay, etc... But I found this rig to be less "flexy." Is it just me?

Edited by - shnool on 02/08/2013 10:07:40

abraxis
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 02/09/2013 : 19:02:51

There are no adjustments to the chain plates. All adjustments should be made at the turnbuckles.
Most Capri 25s have bulkhead failure due to rot at bottom.
Go into the archives and check out how to remove old bulkheads and use them for templates for new. I used teak veneer plywood and cut it out a bit wider than original, fitted by putting in place and slowly sanding out high points til they fitted snugly takes a while but worth the effort. Deck above support post has to be raised a bit after removing ALL screws holding it in place.
There should be no reason to change chain plates as they are quite substantial.

Good luck,

ABRAXIS

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joearcht
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2013 : 19:11:25

I'm still experimenting and don't have much to add, but this boat has been around long enough for many people to have figured it out.

The following is from a post by Chris McKillip who no longer has a Capri 25 but who was a contributor here in the past and seriously studied and sailed a Capri.

1. loosen everything - use your halyards to steady the mast.
2. take the boom off
3. get something to wedge under the mast and step, also a peeny goes in there.
4. raise a small line attached to a plumb bob all the way to the mast head, set the mast rake at the gose neck to 10 to 12 inches. set wedges under mast, leave bob on the mast for now.
5. hoist a 50' tape up to the mast head.
6. measure side to side to get the mast in column, use same base point on each side, tighten side stays.
7. my final number on loose guage was 32-34 - mast is now set side to side.
8. tighten forward lowers to bring center of mast forward at the middle to 1". Mine was at 28 on loose guage.
9. hand tighten the aft lowers to 22. when its windy you tighten the aft lowers before heading out.
10. now its time to adjust the head stay, I had mine loose in light air, about 4" of slack up the extrusion.
11. backstay will flatten the forsail by making the headstay flatter at the luff.
12. for a genoa - say 150% the genoa cars are on the small tracks right at the cockpit maybee 1'-0" from the genoa winches.
13. keep the slot open, leave the main sheet alone and adjust the traveler in puffs.
14. the genoa drives this boat, the masthead rig is simple and when setup is easy to sail well in light to mid-air range.
15. heavy air - reef the main and get a 100% jib, body weight is a must.
16. keep the boat flat, keep from moving from side to side, keep the boat flat.....
17. in light air, stay on the low side, it will help the boat track better.

In addition to the above I've reference a Mainsheet article by Ken Seider from Spring 1983. Also the EP sails website has a tuning guide for this boat that seems pretty good. I've followed Chris's advice and the EP tuning guide more than anything else, but like I said, I'm still learning.

Hope this helps!

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 07:07:03

Now that's a great guide!

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Fleet
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151 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 07:25:10

I'm not sure of the proper "chain plate" terminology so bear with me. I'll call the part that bolts to the deck the "base" and the long part that the shroud connects to and mounts vertically to the bulkhead, "shroud adapter". If someone knows the correct terms please enlighten me. I assumed that since the adapter can slide in the base that it may be adjustable (although not easily). This gap between the base and adapter is large source of water leaks that lead to the deterioration of the forward bulkheads. Why is the gap between the base and adapter present?

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joearcht
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Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 07:42:55

My take on this (and it is just my take, I make no claim to authoritative knowledge here) is that the "plate" and "shroud adapter" (as you have named them) together make up the "chainplate".
I think the reason the two pieces are not welded together is to allow for flex in the system. The "shroud adapter" is the structural element of the assembly and is NOT intended to be adjustable and I would suspect is NOT intended to be relocated without violating the class design. The "base" is just a trim piece to facilitate the sealing of the structural component to the deck and to the "shroud adapter" and allow for a little flex in the "shroud adapter" without tearing fiberglass or joint sealers at the deck. The only adjustment intended is above the chain plate in the turnbuckles for the shrouds.
I'm by no means a naval architect, but this is how I analyze the connection. In the eight years I've owned and raced my boat I've re-bedded this joint twice and presume it is just a regular maintenance item IF you want a dry boat.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 08:48:22

Yep, not sure the proper part terms either, but I know if you buy a chainplate for the Cat 25... it's one piece. I haven't looked yet (as it's not on my "list" yet... but I AM thinking of replacing/rebedding these (as I am sure mine are likely original). My concern is the Wayzatta folks say that they've all lost a mast with the chainplates giving way... so it's something I want to replace before it's a problem.

Anyway, does anyone know if this part from the Cat 25 also works for the Capri 25?
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=399

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joearcht
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Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 08:57:21

Looks similar to me, but a physical comparison of dimensions should be performed. I suspect that it will be the same.
I'm curious about the failures you've cited. Are they failures of the actual stainless steel bar or just failures of the bulkhead attachment due to rotting of the bulkhead?

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/10/2013 : 18:29:54

don't know, but it's worth asking.... since my standing rigging is about 4 years old, I'd wager the chainplates weren't part of that upgrade... just again by looks.

My only recommendation is the bulkheads be examined always... lemme do some digging though, because I distinctly recall where chainplates "looked" perfect, but were prone to fail from fatigue by mere age. I may be mixing my histories now though.

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