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Portsmouth definition of "Spinnaker" boat?

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/11/2013 : 09:17:54

Trying to solidify the handicaps using the Portsmouth Yardstick. One of the issues we are grappling with is how do you know what boat already has the spinnaker adjustment included in the handicap? My first take is that if the Portsmouth table does not specifically list a boat's rating with or without a spinnaker then I assume the boat's handicap is without a spinnaker. So in the case of our Capri 25, I would impose the additional spinnaker handicap if we fly a spinnaker. A neighboring marina appears to take the opposite tack: They assume the non-specified handicap rating includes racing with a spinnaker. No additional handicap penalty if we fly a spinnaker. How do you guys work this issue?

Fleet
Kamikaze
1983 Hull #397
Lake Guntersville, AL

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2013 : 09:34:12

They are applying our own one design rules to one-design boats... Assuming a full arsenal of sails on OD boats for us. So I get shot like I have a spin (and I do), but sadly I am sailing solo most of the time, so launching a sym-spin alone is dicy with any kind of wind (sometimes even with little wind)... I looked up our clubs rules, and wanted to know if I could get an asym, (not that its easy, but maybe easier)... thought maybe a sprit with the same length as the standard pole, and I may be able to fly one cruising style. Well, guess what? I'd get penalized for it being outside of our OD rules. I've asked the subject a couple different ways... Maybe I'm not asking right. so we assume you have a spin... if you choose not to use it, it's on you. Our winds are so squirrley though, most times I've found that if I wait long enough the direction changes enough to make flying a spin a pain, so I can catch up to most of those struggling.

EDIT: I realize now you may be asking if the portsmouth listed number includes that handicap. Again, our club assumes a OD does.

Looking up here: http://offshore.ussailing.org/Portsmouth_Yardstick/Text/section_i.htm
"That all one-design boats conform to class specifications and rules, and use sails specified by the class"

Oh, and more importantly:
<i>"The US SAILING Portsmouth Numbers Committee has been evaluating a base boat concept for offshore classes. D-PNs and HCs are now determined with the assumptions that offshore classes carry full sail inventories, correct sail choices are made and that allowances are made for those with reduced inventories, excess weight, etc. Under a base boat concept, a standard boat would be defined for each class (sail inventory, engine type, propeller) and allowances made for deviations from this base boat. The D-PNs and HCs would then represent the base boat of each class.

Currently, for offshore classes, a standard boat is considered to be equipped as follows:

Genoa LP between 150% and 155% of "J"
Spinnaker pole length equal to "J"
Spinnaker maximum width 180% of "J"
Spinnaker maximum length 95% of jibstay length
Unmodified hull and appendages
Lightweight engine and folding or feathering prop, 2-blade solid prop in aperture, or retractable outboard motor
Full length battens allowed without penalty
Boat in racing condition
All above are subject to exceptions defined by class rules or the manufacturer"</i>

Edited by - shnool on 02/11/2013 09:47:08

Fleet
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 02/11/2013 : 13:59:57

I think you found my answer. The last part that states a standard boat is equipped with a spinnaker is the statement I'm looking for. Thanks.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2013 : 19:44:59

Fleet, are you your club's statistician?

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2013 : 07:10:37

No. I am the Vice-Commodore/Race Chairman. We changed over from PHRF to Portsmouth last fall and I'm working with our scorer/statistician to resolve some lingering issues. One of the interesting issues we have how to handicap a special Catalina 27. Evidently the story on the 27 is that it was refused delivery by the owner when it was new from the factory. Returned to the factory. Someone at the factory bought it and then proceeded to install a Capri 25 keel onto it.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2013 : 15:12:10

Interesting... I wonder how that does for performance... I'd think it'd make the 27 a bit tender, and of course lighter.

I think I linked to you before the issues with Portsmouth... Apparently both PHRF and Portsmouth ratings break down under different circumstances... If you do Portsmouth for a race, and the wind dies halfway through the race, then picks back up... the lower Portsmouth numbers get hugely penalized. It's happened to our fleet several times, and because of this, we've had a catboat win a couple of our races.

just read my own post... I actually like Portsmouth over PHRF... just figured I'd tell you where it breaks down.

Edited by - shnool on 02/12/2013 15:12:57

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.