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Water onboard

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indecentseas
1st Mate

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Canada
67 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/05/2013 : 00:02:28

Hello, I'm fairly new to keel boat sailing. My boat takes on some water. I'm trying to figure out how serious that is. My boat, Indy, is a 1978 Catalina 25. It has a swing keel.

I know that some water drips in through the windows. I think I have stopped or seriously limited that source of water by covering the boat with a tarp when moored. It may be that water is slowly coming in through the hull. At purchase I had the boat inspected and was told that a redundant boat speed meter was poorly bedded and leaking. I have not yet fixed this.

The amount of water is quite small. When I remove the hatch under the couch/bed in the main cabin there may be about 3-4 inches of water after about a month of sitting in the heavy pacific northwest rain. I can remove much of this water with the pump. The pump does not allow me to get all the water out and I have to leave about an inch or so behind. When I check in a month or so later I can again pump out the inch or so of water that has come in.

So my first question is, is it unusual to have a few inches of water sloshing around in a 35 year old boat? Or is that a bit unusual? How bad is it for the boat to have that amount of water onboard? How bad is it for people on the boat? Are there health effects from this water just sitting in the boat? Should I be taking a zero tolerance policy towards water onboard, or is my current live and let live approach fine?

Thank you very much.

-David Hopkins
Vancouver, Canada

David Hopkins
Vancouver, British Columbia
'78 Swing Keel, Standard Rig, Dinette
#534

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 04:06:53

A boat with no inboard motor should have 0 water. Leaks from portlights are common though, and your tarp idea is a doos stop gap

I would be concerned over a leaking thru-hull. It is giving you a warning, head that warning and get it fixed ASAP.

As far as health: moisture provides an environment for mold to grow.

We live with some water on-board during periods of heavy rains (portlights will be fixed this year)but I am able to scoop out with a lastic cup and dry with a towel. Last year was a dry season for us, so we had a bone dry bilge until fall rains.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 05:14:06

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Should I be taking a zero tolerance policy towards water onboard,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I prefer this choice. Because, if you start with zero water and then discover some, you immediately know you have a problem.

It took some time to fix all the leaks on my boat. The major problem was the windows, which I replaced. A 1978 boat's windows my be more difficult to replace than my '87. But they were the biggest problem. Two other spots leaked water into the dumpster, which then found its way to the bilge. The forward stern pulpit mounts, and the hinges for the dumpster lid and fuel locker would leak into that space. A third leak was discovered at the wood trim pieces around the hatch boards. Water would get behind them and then drip water just behind the steps and then into the bilge.

I think a through hull fitting leak should be a high priority.

A Ryobi portable 18v wet/dry vac has proven helpful, especially when at anchor for cleaning up everyday things and any water.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 06:02:37

Welcome, David! Do you see moisture around the speed thru-hull? If the bedding is bad, it shouldn't matter whether you're moving or not. Also check around the keel cable hose clamps. And cockpit scuppers can leak.

The thru-hull is a potential concern--otherwise I'd say your water problem is pretty normal. There are too many potential ways for rain to find its way in. Water is relentless.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/05/2013 06:03:16

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 11:29:31

I only get water in my bilge when it rains.....I've got quite a few leaks, but the biggest culprit is the hatch boards.

Edited by - on

indecentseas
1st Mate

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Canada
67 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:14:44

Thank you all for your responses.

What I have taken away from your answers is it is not unusual to have water, even a significant amount of water, in a boat like mine. It's a good idea to fix up leaks, but it's not absolutely necessary. One really good reason to fix the leaks is so that in the future if I see water in the boat it could be an early warning of a significant problem.

Again, thanks for your help.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 16:01:32

I would worry about leaks below waterline. hatchboards, hatches, portlights, or any other sources above waterline are at small amounts a nuisance but not a threat to sinking. If a fitting below waterline gives, a boat can sink in minutes.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 20:08:53

Fix the leak around the speed meter. It will sink your boat quickly if it fails.

Another area to keep an eye on in the early year model boats like yours is what we refer to as to-hull fittings. These were prone to fail because they are just glassed in instead actually being a normal thru hull fitting. I think some of these have been known to just pop out unexpectedly.

It's not a matter of if these will fail, it's a matter of when. When your family is on-board? Is it worth the risk?

I'd imagine the waters in your stomping grounds are cold all year long. Wouldn't take long for hypothermia to get you.

I'm sure others with more knowledge on this subject will jump in.

Another place water gets in when it rains is from a cracked hose in the anchor locker.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 21:02:13

The bilge on a C-25 should be dry!
Window leaks are common, as discussed above, also the companionway boards at the top at each end where the sliding hatch meets the top board. A good tarp over the main cabin top and windows and companionway will stop most of those leaks when it rains.
Make sure the drain hole at the bow for the anchor locker is not obstructed. The anchor locker can fill up with rain water and overflow.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2013 : 22:45:53

Gary's point about "to-hull fittings" is important for every owner of a pre- (let's say) '81(?) C-25. These are for the sink drains and possibly marine head intakes. In early C-25s, each of these fittings was a bronze pipe glued to a hole in the hull with a "mushroom" of epoxy putty. The clue is that there's nothing on the outside but a hole. In salt water, especially, or where current might be leaking in a marina, these pipes have been known to deteriorate to the point of crumbling inside the "mushroom." Another issue is, with no part of the fitting outside of the hull, the mechanical strength is limited--for example if something slides against the pipe when the boat is heeling or pitching.

Later models (including my '85) had "flush" fittings where a circle was countersunk around the outside of the hole, and the fitting had a flat disk that fit in that circle, with a collar that screwed down on the inside of the hull to pull the disk tightly against the outside. The more common approach now is a fitting that's a dome on the outside (not meant to be countersunk) with a threaded pipe and collar on the inside. It can be bronze or Marelon (reinforeced nylon)--the debates on that choice are endless.

However, in a 30+ year old boat, the possibility of either deterioration or mechanical failure of the old "to-hulls" is significant and potentially catastrophic. To replace one, people have unscrewed the pipe (some of which fell out in their hands), ground the mushroom flat, and installed proper thru-hulls and seacocks (ball valves on the thru-hulls).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/05/2013 22:48:01

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:26:50

<< What I have taken away >>

There is a lot to learn and we attempt to help. I can hardly relate to your climate, so you might have some very different problems than I would have round here...

I would imagine water seeping into the hull around fittings and then freezing would shorten their life...

Anyhoo... that is the fun of it all..

Edited by - on

indecentseas
1st Mate

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Canada
67 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2013 : 09:14:34

Thank you all for your responses. I will take care of the hull leaks in the near future and at the same time look into the "to-hull" fittings.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2013 : 15:05:28

David,
I hava a 1978 swing keel also. Hull 482. I have at best a half inch of water after a heavy rain that comes in somewhere. I think that 2" of water over a month's time is a bit much. The advise to check your possibly leaking speed thru-hull is good advice.
While you are at it, I would also look at the sink drain, also known as a sea cock. The original installs were basically a glassed in pipe through the hull with a plumbing valve attached to the end. If your boat has one of these you should replace it as soon as possible. These can fail in several differnt ways and as one responder said: "If a fitting below waterline gives, a boat can sink in minutes." Very true. There are several posts in forum history about replacing these. I replaced mine with a Marelon model which works very well. Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss details.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2013 : 16:21:40

i had a similar leak after putting my boat back in the water last spring, the knotmeter was letting water in, maybe 1/4 cup an hour... took it out of the water right away and recaulked it, was bone dry after that

the only other occurrences when i find water in the bilge is when the boat is on it's cradle and it rains a lot, somehow if the angle of the resting boat isn't the same as when in the water it finds it's way in the bilge

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2013 : 18:24:32

Anyone know what the likelihood is that the Capri 25 is the same? I think I have the flanged sea cock... but now you folks have me very concerned.

My signet knotmeter seems like a ground flush install through-hull, obviously the depth sounder I just installed is a standard through-hull.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2013 : 20:52:35

You can tell from the inside of the boat. If it has a Catalina "to-hull" fitting then there will be a cone of fiberglass inside the hole around the pipe nipple. On top of that there will be a valve threaded into place. That looks like this (found on the forums):
http://www.eaglelake1.org/CA/sail/c25/thruhull3.jpg

If it is through hull with a valve on top then you'll see a nut instead of the boat. That'll look like this, although the through hull could be plastic instead of bronze:

If it is a proper seacock then it'll look like this:

Those last two images are from here, I didn't take them:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls

The 1984 C-25 that I had used a proper through hull for the holding tank dump, but used the volcano "to hull" for the galley and head drains. They haven't been replaced (yet) but we're careful not to store heavy items near them and to protect them well from impacts.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2013 : 08:22:07

David,
I went down to Costco and bought their heavy duty double-sided tarp. I then cut it to fit over the cabin top, windows and all my teak. The I added grommets and snap hooks at the four corners adjacent to the lower shrouds. It serves two purposes. It prevents the window drips when it rains or a heavy dew is present and it protects the Cetol covered wood from moisture and sun. The result is I have a dry bilge and the wood has remained new looking going into its 4th year. For that last inch or so of water in the bilge, use a large sponge to sop it up. The bottom of the bilge is relatively narrow so an inch of water is only about a quart or so.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2013 : 21:42:49

I use the sponge technique most of the time to remove rainwater. On rare occasions after heavy rains I've used a kayak pump and a bucket and have taken 1-2 quarts out of the bilge.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2013 : 10:28:10

For water that collects in the bottom of the "dumpster" or port side storage locker, a good string mop works well to get the water out without having to climb into the locker.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2013 : 13:47:17

My 78 has never been watertight or had a consistently "dry bilge". It's 35 years old and has window and through-hull leaks that I tackle when I have nothing better to do, which is not often. The tarp is a good idea to cover the windows and protect the wooden rails and hatches. After vacuuming the water use a sponge to get the rest. My boat is docked in So Cal and I have seen a few inches of water after a month or so in wet winter weather. The northwest has considerably more rain than I get so I would expect your situation is normal for a boat with leaking windows and hardware. I would fix or remove the hull flywheel as that could be a safety issue. Then go sailing. Leaks on an old boat are like weeds in the yard. You take care of one and two more come up.

Edited by - on

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