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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing keel inspection

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2013 : 13:43:06

Is there a "how to" thread somewhere on how to do an inspection on a swing keel assembly? What to look for... common issues maybe and what it takes to repair? Are pivot bolts a concern? Etc?
I did some searching on the forum but couldn't find anything.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 17:23:06

Kyle -

All I know about the SK is that the cable should be replaced every 3 year. The PO of my boat changed it in 2009 so I've already purchased the kit from Catalina Direct and have plans on doing it before I launch this year. Inspection of the "trunk" will indicate cracks or a repair if it has failed. A cable failure isn't the end of the world (several have servived and been repaired) but is can certainly sink a boat if it happens.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 18:35:43

The frequency of changing the swing keel cable depends a lot of how the boat is sailed and stored, and whether in salt or fresh water. My old boat, for example, was kept in a slip in fresh water, with the keel always down. As a result, the cable was utilized very seldom and after 5 years and pulled out only twice for bottom work, showed virtually no wear. On the other hand, a boat stored in salt water, or in a slip where the keel must be raised due to shallow water, will require much more frequent cable maintenance.
Some things to look for are:
1. Condition of the hardware at the cable/keel connection. Any corrosion, replace. If the connection bracket doesn't look like the newer style in the Catalina Direct catalog, replace. If the bolt going into the keel is loose or has any play in it, replace.
2. Any signs of corrosion or fraying of the cable, replace. If it has been more than 5 years since it was replaced, replace just for the peace of mind.
3. Find out if the hanger bolts have ever been replaced. That is a very tricky job that can also be dangerous if not done correctly and carefully.
4. Is there any side-to-side keel wobble. Have anti-wobble spacers been added to the keel - 4 to 5" discs on each side of the swing keel at the front close to the hull looking at it with the keel up. Good if they are there.
5. Check the condition of the winch, located in the cabin under the top companionway step. Make sure there is a cable winch handle. Usually takes a special fitting to mate to the winch if the winch is original equip.
6. Ask if the turning ball has ever been replaced. Refer to the manuals and brochures section of this forum and pull up a parts manual. There's a good drawing of the swing keel hardware in there.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/30/2013 19:17:34

Kper
Captain

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417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 18:53:53

Why would keeping the keel up require more maintenance?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 19:21:10

More wear and tear on the cable and hardware each time it is raised/lowered. Stands to reason, someone who pulls the boat frequently to trailer her will use the keel lifting hardware more than someone who keeps the boat in the water, or who keeps her on the trailer ans seldom sails her.
BTW, the turning ball is a bronze ball with a groove in it that rotates on a pin, located in the thru-hull tube. Its purpose is to guide the cable and keep it off of the fiberglass hull as the keel is raised.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/30/2013 19:26:46

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 05:51:53

I understand the wear from use but if somebody were to sail with the keel up most of the time (people do) then we're back to little wear. I thought you were saying it would need more maintenance if left up as opposed to being left down. Misunderstanding on my part.

There really is no way to inspect anything except the cable, is there? I suppose if you cradled the boat, lowered the keel and tried to move it then maybe one could tell if it needed repair but I wouldn't have a clue how much movement would be too much. It just seems to be the weak link in the C-25's and I thought there might be more information on how to properly inspect and/or repair.

Thanks for the replies.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 14:47:41

The head of the swing keel is not cradled as tight when the keel is up and so the entire weight can bang athwartship. When the keel is down the head is up in its "socket" and is held tighter. Also, people do not sail with the keel up all the time. Only idiots sail a Catalina 25 with the keel up, who ever led you to think sailing a C25 with the keel up is safe is ... ... ... very mistaken, (I cleaned that up ).

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 17:34:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...Only idiots sail a Catalina 25 with the keel up, who ever led you to think sailing a C25 with the keel up is safe is ... ... ... very mistaken, (I cleaned that up ).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wouldn't consider sailing with the keel up but I was told by a member of this forum that they did.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 18:26:27

The Catalina 25 swing keel model is meant to be sailed with the keel in the full down position. It is flared out somewhat at the bottom to put more of the ballast as deep as possible. The only time to raise the keel while under sail is when you are in shallow water and must raise it to keep from running aground. Once back in deep enough water, it should go back down. If you sail with the keel up and the cable or keel cable fitting should fail, 1500 lbs of keel will free swing down with tremendous force. The top of the keel would then demolish the top of the keel trunk, part of which is below the water line, and your boat will most likely sink.
Do not sail with the keel up!!!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 18:52:11

Something might be getting lost in translation. When we were in shallow waters we would raise the swing keel, but only partially, to keep it from dragging on the bottom of the lake.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 20:42:37

It doesn't sail as well, but you could have the keel up a little in moderate conditions. Both resistance to heel and balance would be impacted. Corrosion is the cable and attachment's real enemy. Full up or full down doesn't make much difference. Breaking in the last foot is just as bad as breaking in the middle. It is true that broken strands and visible corrosion is an indicator for change, but stainless can corrode and fail, and commonly does, without visible signs. Inspection of the lifting components is pointless, just replace it! If you don't know how old it is, replace it and start a schedule. The bolts holding the pivot assembly should be removed annually to prevent freezing and breaking when you need to remove them. Use new bolts each time. The bolts can be replaced one at a time without dropping the keel. The keel can easily be dropped enough to inspect and repair the pivot assembly if the boat is on a trailer. I over drilled and sleeved an enlarged pivot hole in the keel with Pearl on her trailer. I will try to find my posts (there are several because I have trouble finding them) next week. The pivot assembly is silicon bronze and almost bullet proof, but it still good to inspect it. The pivot pin can bend or wear, but enlarging the hole in the keel is the most common problem. The cause needs to be addressed before fixing the resulting wobble and clunk.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2013 : 20:32:53

Kyle -

I was told that the lifting cable/hardware should be replaced every 3 years to be safe. When sailing, the keel should always be fully down. In that position the boat draws about 30"-36" so most areas will be safe to sail. It is true that you may need to raise it if you run aground (an option that is not available on a FK or WK). Good luck with your search.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2013 : 21:19:12

The swing draws about 5' with the keel down

Edited by - on

hubbardbilly
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2013 : 04:12:40

Good thread here! So, I have another question. I plan to keep my SK on a mooring this year in salt water (Narragansett Bay, RI). Does it matter if I leave the keel up or down at the mooring? (My thought is Keel Down...) I guess there are 2 reasons to ask this:
1. If I leave the keel down, am I putting the keel cable at more risk of corrosion/failure? I would think that the benefit of leaving the keel down would be that you would take the stress off the keel cable assembly. Also, with the keel down, I recall that my C-22 had less keel clunk since the weight of the keel was on the trunk rather than on the cable.
2. If I leave the keel up, is the entire keel assembly out of the water? If not, it seems to make more sense to keep the keel down.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2013 : 04:45:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Does it matter if I leave the keel up or down at the mooring? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This question usually stirs up a pretty good debate every year or two.......

I'll start, My boat is in saltwater, I keep the keel up.... I have no other choice. The water under my dock is too shallow to do otherwise. I've replaced my cable every two or three years. I've never had a failure..... Now where's that wood....

I think if you maintain the cable it won't matter.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2013 : 10:54:12

I agree with Davy J that it doesn't matter much with proper maintenance, and the keel will hit the mud instead of the hull if the cable breaks in his situation. Up is also the factory recommendation. I keep mine down. The attachment and part of the cable is in the water, so you still have some potential for corrosion with it up. Those of us that leave it down feel that there is a little more safety in that the keel cannot fall in our absence. It can still break and fall the next time one cranks it up, but you can do something about it then.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2013 : 19:34:18

I agree with Dave.

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