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Outboard bogs down under load

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/18/2013 : 07:45:42

Yesterday Rita had a friend come into town for a conference. We decided that an early evening cruise would be a nice way to show her Seattle from the water. The outboard started right up as it has every time I've been down to work on the boat the last few months. We cast off and got turned into the fairway, all at idle, with no problems. As soon as I gave it some gas, the engine stalled out. Hmmm...well, I hadn't run it very long so maybe it wasn't warmed up. Started right back up with no problems, and we idled out of the fairway and out onto the Duwamish River with no problems. Throttled up a bit as we were heading through the choke point of the RR bascule & Spokane Street bridges, and the engine bogged down again. Feathered the throttle a bit and it seemed to get it's feet back under itself while we passed by the bascule bridge, but then it just died as we were going under the Spokane St. bridge. Great. There's a tug boat heading down river maybe 500 yards astern, so I get on channel 16 & tell him I'm having engine problems, and he tells me that he'll keep an eye on me. I fiddle with the choke and get the engine running again briefly, but by now the wind has pushed us sideways in the channel almost directly beneath the bridge. Great. I give it a little throttle to try to get straightened out heading back downstream toward the marina, and unsurprisingly it dies again. The little burst was enough to get us straightened out mostly, and a bit more fiddling with throttle & choke gets the engine running again, and I ease it into forward at idle and can finally make some way. The tug boat passes us with no further incident, and we ooze back up the channel at idle on near full choke and back into our slip.

After we got tied up, I ran the engine for half an hour at 1000 RPM without a hiccup, so it only seems to be under load, which seems to indicate another carburetor problem. Last time this occurred, I added a Racor fuel/water separator (I'm going to replace the filter although it probably has less than 4 hours of run time on it), replaced all the filters in the fuel system, rebuilt the carburetor, and replaced the fuel bulb. Did I miss something? Thoughts?

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 07:52:18

Might be that E-10 fuel has eaten fuel line or gasket material and you have a blocked or partially blocked jet in the carb.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:03:41

I agree with Bill. Clean out the carb and replace your fuel lines.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:09:49

Also check for faulty connections at the gas tank, engine, and both sides of the primer bulb and Racor. You may be sucking air. It could be as simple as the connector at the engine not being fully seated.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/18/2013 08:12:52

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:10:40

When my outboard behaved that way, it had tiny, barely visible cracks in the fuel hose, mostly where fittings were attached to the hose. I replaced the hose and the motor ran fine. My theory is that, as motor speed increases, it tries to pull more fuel through the line, but instead, it sucks air through the tiny cracks, starving the engine for fuel.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:27:48

Concur with Steve, had that exact same issue. I found it by pumping the fuel ball and saw gas come out of the tube near the ball.

Paul

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:32:33

You may be on the verge of this:

<center>

</center>

After this happened on Take Five, I realized that my long-time problem of losing power at full throttle on my 50 HP motor on the Trophy boat might be because of sucking air through cracks in the line. Sure enough, that was the problem, and that other boat now works better than it has in the last 10 years.

So do check your fuel lines and connectors.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/18/2013 08:38:13

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 08:51:00

Looks like a trip to WM at lunch. Anyone know the fuel line ID inside a 2008 Tohatsu/Nissan?

On the list:
New fuel bulb & hose.
New fuel lines to replace lines to and from Racor filter and hopefully the same size, replace fuel lines inside cowling.
New Tohatsu connector for fuel line from Racor.
New Racor filter (already got a spare, but I'm going to use it, so new spare).
Inline filter for inside cowling.

Missing anything?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 09:47:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 The tug boat passes us with no further incident, and we ooze back up the channel at idle on near full choke and back into our slip.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you needed full choke at idle to keep it running and it dies at higher throttle, it appears to be a fuel delivery problem before it hits the idle and high speed jets since both paths appear to be affected. As the others have said, this could be a myriad of things. fuel line, bulb, fuel pump, dirty carb,...etc, and not meaning to insult you, but was the vent open on the fuel tank?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 10:03:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you needed full choke at idle to keep it running and it dies at higher throttle, it appears to be a fuel delivery problem before it hits the idle and high speed jets since both paths appear to be affected. As the others have said, this could be a myriad of things. fuel line, bulb, fuel pump, dirty carb,...etc, and not meaning to insult you, but was the vent open on the fuel tank?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a self-venting tank, so unless it's somehow blocked? And no offense taken in the slightest, mostly because I have drawn a suction on my old metal tank before and had it die, but then it wouldn't start again at all until I unscrewed the vent cap and pumped up the bulb.

Maybe it's as simple as a bad fuel bulb & line. I'll replace them as well as all the lines to the engine.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 10:48:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Was the primer bulb firm?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, no problems there. I could see fuel being pumped through my inline filter. If the fuel lines are deteriorating, the particulate matter would have to get through four filters before it got to the carb. One in the tank, one in the line from the tank, the Racor, and then another inline filter inside the cowling. I've replaced all but the tank filter, some more than once, since the initial problem occurred with the E85 gasoline phase separation, tank rusting, sucking rusty water/fuel mix through the system, clean & rebuild carb 3x, replace all filters, fuel bulb & line, add inline filter, add Racor filter, you get the drift.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 12:24:15

Check the spark plugs too. My engine behaved in a similar manner a couple years ago, and new spark plugs fixed it right up.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 13:02:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Looks like a trip to WM at lunch. Anyone know the fuel line ID inside a 2008 Tohatsu/Nissan?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or not, they didn't have anything I needed. However, there's some good news, the manager of the Everett store (which was a short drive from where I used to work), is now the manager of the Bellevue store (a short walk from where I work), and he's a good guy to deal with, so I'm happy about that.

I'll start an online search for what I need. iBoats probably.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Check the spark plugs too. My engine behaved in a similar manner a couple years ago, and new spark plugs fixed it right up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the reminder, this is on my list too. My first thought last night when it started happening was it sounded like a weak spark.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 14:04:38

I'll keep my '89 2 cycle Suzuki. Sarts on the 2nd or 3rd pull and runs like a clock.

Now that I've said that my motor problems will start!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 14:59:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kc5dlo
 I have a spare 89 Suzuki
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If I mount another one on the port side can I go twice as fast?

Edited by - on

binky
Navigator

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USA
115 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 16:14:09

David, Just a reminder, there are two ways to go about this. You can replace the whole works or you can go component by component. I would go the second route albeit a bit more time consuming but it will help identify the exact problem. I like to keep usable "spare" parts ...if you determine what is broken (ie a fuel filter) keep all the spare usable parts and don't forget to buy an extra "broken" part your next trip to WM. This way you have a comlpete set of extras.....just in case you ever need them. Can you let us know what the problem turns out to be?

Edited by - on

binky
Navigator

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USA
115 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 16:29:59

After my last post and re-reading the entire post again: Two thoughts come to mind, 1. I should go and purchase a full set of hoses, primer bulb, clamps and filters to keep on board...I already have a new fuel line/motor connector (been there done that) Note to self: add a spark plug to that list.....and back to #2. You mentioned a metal fuel tank and tank rust, could that be the cause of the issue?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 18:10:31

Metal (especially steel) tanks are no longer a good idea, given the effects of ethanol--particularly the products of phase separation. But the Racor filter should catch that kind of stuff. In any case, I wouldn't have a steel tank any more, and aluminum is only marginally better. In the words of Mr. McGuire, "I have one word for you: Plastics."

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/18/2013 18:16:07

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2013 : 18:42:49

Deloitte, I hope that was a typo and you did't really put E-85 in your outboard. Be aware that E-10 compatible fuel lines might have an internal liner that can fold over and block flow when you slide it over them nipple. I was not a happy camper when I plumbed my Sierra filter/water separator until I sorted that out.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2013 : 09:34:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">David, Just a reminder, there are two ways to go about this. You can replace the whole works or you can go component by component. I would go the second route albeit a bit more time consuming but it will help identify the exact problem. I like to keep usable "spare" parts ...if you determine what is broken (ie a fuel filter) keep all the spare usable parts and don't forget to buy an extra "broken" part your next trip to WM. This way you have a comlpete set of extras.....just in case you ever need them. Can you let us know what the problem turns out to be? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm all for incremental testing, but I'm fairly reluctant to take my boat out for each change, especially since I might end up stranded again. I suppose I can test in my slip, just add some extra lines to keep the boat in place. Taking the boat out into restricted commercial traffic when I know it might not be completely operable seems irresponsible. If I were on a lake or something, sure, but the Duwamish river regularly has giant barges that barely fit through the bascule bridge when the tugs take them through, and I do not want to be in a place where they have to try to maneuver around me (they absolutely have nowhere to go, the channel is very narrow). It was bad enough the other night when I was stuck under the Spokane St. bridge, which is somewhat wider than the bascule bridge, but since they're in such close proximity, it might as well have been the bascule bridge. Fortunately the tug didn't have a tow, but not long after we got back into our slip, one of the monster barges went by. That could have been...interesting.

I've decided just to buy a new Tohatsu fuel line setup, and cut it to fit it into my Racor & inline filter scheme I've got going. That gives me fresh connections at both ends, new fuel lines all around, and a new bulb. Unsurprisingly I can't find one locally, although I seem to remember there's a Tohatsu dealer somewhere in Seattle.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/19/2013 09:37:34

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2013 : 10:18:18

Just got off the phone with a local Tohatsu dealer. He stocks the fuel line, so I can get one tomorrow. He also recommends using Star Tron enzyme treatment instead of or in conjunction with Stabil.

Anyone used this stuff to good effect?

Edited by - delliottg on 04/19/2013 10:37:19

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2013 : 19:04:05

The only way you know the "effect" is when nothing happens, and that's been my happy experience. In my $+!nkp*+, each fall I fill up the 110 gallon tank and add an "overdose" of Marine Stabil and Startron before storing the boat for the winter. As I understand it, these are two very different chemistries that are not incompatible, but that work toward similar objectives. This was at the recommendation of the Honda mechanic who takes care of the USCG's numerous Honda engines in New London and at the USCG Academy in my area. My first six years have been without incident. But it's hard to prove a negative...

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2013 : 04:45:32

The Tohatsu/Nissan uses the same fuel line as my Merc 5hp. I had 2 tanks and had it set up so I could use either tank/line with either motor. My problem with the Nissan was the opposite of yours, mine would not low idle. Took carb apart and replaced the low idle jet and replaced the older fuel lines with the newer style designed to handle E-10 fuel. Checked the fuel line invoice, sorry, size not indicated.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2013 : 12:30:50

I'm sitting on the boat with the engine running in gear at about 1000 RPM. I replaced the spark plugs, added a double dose of Star Tron & Marine Stabil each, checked that the connections to the engine & tank were tight ( they were), and started the engine with no choke. put it into gear (with lines suitably adjusted), and its been running like that with some throttle adjustments to extremes (WOT, idle, etc) for over an hour. Go figure.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2013 : 13:12:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...Go figure.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Simple: There were no tugs bearing down.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/20/2013 13:13:31

binky
Navigator

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USA
115 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2013 : 14:23:31

How did the old spark plug look?

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