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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Replacing Croco HF head concerns

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2013 : 06:11:52

My old Groco HF head is shot, so I am contemplating replacing it with a new one. My main concern is that the mounting dimensions on Groco's website don't exactly match that of the existing unit. Does anyone have any experience with this?

M. Linz
Snellville, GA
1986 Catalina TR/FK
#5345
Lake Sidney Lanier

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 06:58:08

I replaced my old Wilcox-Crittenden head with a new Jabsco head last year, and the mounting holes didn't line up, so I filled them with white Marine Tex, so that dirt and moisture didn't accumulate under the mounting pedestal through the old bolt holes, and then drilled new holes to fit the new head.

I also took a little extra time to replace a couple of hoses, and all the old smells went away. The new head, with a new pump, flushes much better. It's a $150. upgrade that is well worth doing!

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 07:44:51

Steve:
I've looked at other brands, but figured using the same model would be the easiest - maybe not! Also, it seems the Jabsco models don't receive favorable reviews.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 09:40:10

Raritan PHC is about the next step up in price and gets good reviews. I've installed two of them and have found them to be reliable and easy to install. The bolt pattern is not the same as a Groco HF, but I did the same trick with filling the old holes and had no problems with that.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 11:06:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MikaDayputs
 Steve:
I've looked at other brands, but figured using the same model would be the easiest - maybe not! Also, it seems the Jabsco models don't receive favorable reviews.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Wilcox-Crittenden went out of business, so I had to change brands. I didn't investigate different brands - just bought the Jabsco because it was a name brand and on sale, but have been very pleased with it. It has a strong flush.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 14:22:16

This is all good info - much appreciated. Is there anyone that's replaced an old HF model with a new one?

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 09:18:29

35 years of experience of ownership and bareboat rentals indicates that the Groco is the worst head ever made. We installed a Raritan PHII (same pump as the PHC just a tad bigger) after two Wilcox Crittendon Head Mate replacements. Shoulda done it years sooner. The new Jabsco's are also questionable in terms of longevity 'cuz the repair kits cost almost as much as a new head complete - that tells you something about their marketing strategy.

If you like your head and don't want to go porta-potty, and you intend to keep your boat, invest in a Raritan.

The holes don't matter, they're lag bolts, just seal the old ones and drill new ones.

Like this: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html

Good luck.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 14:44:28

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a plan, except I don't see how to gain access to the underside of the mounting area to install the nut. Would a lag screw work? Seems like it would split the fiberglass when torqued down.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 15:50:57

The fiberglass is thin. The lag bolts bite into fiberglass that is underneath. You can drill though the fiberglass to avoid cracking it.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 18:35:21

That's what I needed to know. It's shopping time now. I'll report back on the installation. Thanks to everyone for their input!

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 19:10:29

I meant the plywood that is underneath. Sorry about the confusion.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 20:52:05

There are NO nuts below the bolts holding the head down. If you can't get to it, how do you think the factory did? :) They're simply lag bolts into the base. Covered in my link, too.

Good luck, it's easy.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 10:14:08

Thank you, Stu and Alex. I'm looking forward to completing the installation.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2013 : 15:23:04

Received my new Raritan PHII and am almost ready to install, but 2 questions remain:

1) I don't think my '86 Catalina employs a vented loop for the discharge. Any thoughts on this?

2) Can the 90 degree discharge elbow be rotated to be horizontal. My research so far indicates that it can.

Thanks to all that reply!

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mrapkins
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2013 : 05:28:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MikaDayputs
 Thanks for the info. Sounds like a plan, except I don't see how to gain access to the underside of the mounting area to install the nut. Would a lag screw work? Seems like it would split the fiberglass when torqued down.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The access panel is located beneath the table!!! Took me a while to find that out!

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2013 : 06:57:59

The downside of no loop is that if your one-way valve fails (and it will at some point) then sewage will flush backwards from the holding tank into the toilet. This was happening on my Catalina 25 with the original head. The downside isn't that bad since the holding tank is below toilet level, as long as you replace the joker valve immediately when it does fail. It's kind of gross though.

The elbow on a Raritan PH toilet can be rotated 360 degrees to point in whichever direction is most useful to you. There is also a replacement straight tail piece that is useful for some installations, but I don't think it will be helpful on a Catalina 25. I had to use it on my Pearson 28-2.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2013 : 07:53:19

Thanks for the responses. I just spoke with a tech at Raritan, and he said it is no problem rotating the discharge elbow, though they highly recommend making sure the joker valve remains vertical - good advice. I'll also be adding a strainer on the intake side. I'm ready to go!

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 15:56:38

Sorry for the late response. I installed a Raritan PHII and an inlet filter as well. To finish, I replaced the old output hose, which I hope will cut down on odor. The filter and hose were easy, but the new head, which has 6 mounting points only hit on internal wood on 2 -3 places; the rest was only fiberglass. Just the same, it is solidly mounted, and certainly looks (and smells) much better than the old one. Thanks to everybody for your input.

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trptelf
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2013 : 10:13:25

I rebuilt the pump of my Groco last summer, easy fix, works great. A shot of vegetable oil down the head in the spring keeps everything lubricated and working well. Flush well, we use fresh water only, to avoid waste sitting in the hoses.

Edited by - trptelf on 06/26/2013 20:10:10

Kennyge
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2013 : 05:52:28

I just rebuilt my Groco HF on my "new" 1985 C25 and the whole project took only about an hour. I have also discovered that if I run the water in the head sink and let it run down and then flush the head with with the sea cock closed, the fresh sink water seems to flush into the head. Anyone else notice this?

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 12:09:20

You might be interested in these, too.

Head Odors 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.0.html

Head Odors 101.1 - "T" into sink drain: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216

Head Odors 101.2 The Difference between KO & Odorlos (scroll up to Reply #2) http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=890493&highlight=odorlos

Head Hoses 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5738.0.html

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2013 : 03:38:45

To Kennyge: My plumbing is set up the same way. The sea cock has a "T" fitting at the top which connects to the head on one side, and the sink drain on the other. I too put fresh water in the sink to flush the head.

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Kennyge
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2013 : 05:05:05

Mika, I find it easier than opening the seacock before flushing and I would rather have freshwater in my holding thank than saltwater.

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MikaDayputs
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2013 : 03:39:50

Amen to that

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