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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

reef ties

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tweeet65
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/11/2013 : 09:30:00

Hey gang, setting up Alacrity to be able to reef the main (don't think po's have had to), what creative methods are being used to to tie the reefed sail to the boom?. I have a row of small holes in line with the cringles which are clearly for this purpose. Thanks,

Dave

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 09:48:00

I don't use reef ties at all, and can't remember the last time I have been on a boat where they were used. I have seen reef ties rip holes in sails on several occasions. Everyone I know lets the sailcloth hang. If you must use reef ties, tie them loosely, and don't forget to untie them before you shake out the reef.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 12:13:28

I agree with Steve. Too many bad things can happen tying off the bunts.

FYI, with our high summer winds here on San Francisco Bay, we have what i call our "April to September" reef in the main, and we sail with an 85% jib. In the 12 years with our C25 and 15 with our C34, I rarely used those bunts. All I do is release the pressure on the clew line after a day's sail. I have actually removed the bunt lines from the second reef points (although the tack and clew lines remain, of course). I left the first reef lines, but never use them.

Conclusion: don't bother.

Edited by - on

Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 13:28:07

I use the reef ties all the time - couldn't get proper sail shape without doing so. Most of the time when we are sailing around here we have a reefed main and still do 6-7kts with a good breeze and stay more vertical - they also keep the rest of the sail from falling off the boom. The tie is a 1/4" piece of rope, knotted on each side of the grommet, and tied loosely under the boom with a square knot - also called a reef knot - so they are easy to undo. This assumes you also have some kind of hook at the mast for the forward reef kringle and a piece of rope attached to the aft grommet for the out-haul. It all shakes out fairly quickly when winds get light but if you're actually trying to get somewhere that's about the time we call on the 'iron sail'. Cheers.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 15:23:39

If you sail reefed more than not, the ties might be useful to tie up at the dock... but I'd feel better about using them if I had a loose-footed main--then I'd tie them above the boom so there would be no strain on the grommets.

The few times I've used reef ties, I've used my "all-purpose marine quick-release knot"--the one we all learned by about age 5 so we could "quick-release" our shoes.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/11/2013 15:28:14

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 15:25:08

I also stopped tying the sail to the boom when reefing. It really isn't necessary.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I use the reef ties all the time - couldn't get proper sail shape without doing so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The purpose of tying up the sail isn't to get sail shape, but rather to just tie up the loose sail cloth. Your reefing lines should pull the main tight to the boom without the ties.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but I'd feel better about using them if I had a loose-footed main<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Have a loose footed main and still don't bother to tie up the loose sail cloth.

Edited by - Davy J on 07/11/2013 15:33:47

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 15:38:07

If reef ties are affecting the shape of a sail then they are tied too tight. I never use reef ties and sail in considerable wind often... when there is water in the lake.

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Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2013 : 21:24:31

I posted because yesterday I was on the bay in 16-22 knots of wind and actually retied a couple of the reef ties after not completely liking the shape sailing close-hauled. It's not totally ridiculous to use them if it works for you - they have come standard on thousands of sails for many years so I think I'm not the only one who has found them useful. Using the outhaul alone at the reef point to flatten the sail probably puts more stress on the sail than snugging up the reef ties. It probably depends on where and how you sail. I don't do lake sailing. I sail in and around the San Juan and Gulf Islands of the Northern Inland Waters of the Pacific Northwest in all conditions imaginable. We make a voyage of 40-60nm almost every week for 3-4 months of our summer/fall season - on the Cat 25 for 5+ years now - not including my solo jaunts on the bay. I simply do what works for me and that is the only advice I give - try it out and do what works for you.

"...the ties might be useful to tie up at the dock." ???
Jeeze Dave, what kind of docks do they have where you don't sail anymore?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 03:44:15

I've ripped a sail and left one in when raising the sail a few times. Very annoying. Can't stand those lines hitting me in the face.. This is a good incentive to remove them. I only have one reef, so the amount of cloth laying is minimal on a 25.

Funny how you do things sometimes because "that's how it is done".

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 07:47:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tim M
 ...I was on the bay in 16-22 knots of wind and actually retied a couple of the reef ties after not completely liking the shape sailing close-hauled. It's not totally ridiculous to use them if it works for you - they have come standard on thousands of sails for many years so I think I'm not the only one who has found them useful...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not totally ridiculous if you're comfortable using something in a way that is not intended by the designer and maker. I suspect you'll notice a very different level of reinforcement in the reef points compared to the reef tack and clew. Stories of sails ripped at reef points have been rampant throughout history--you can find them on just about every sailing forum. Hopefully you won't have another one to add to them...

Edited by - on

Tim M
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 09:11:55

I had a sail on Pearson 28 I owned rip from luff to leech at the reef points in strong winds. It had an in-boom-reefing system that attached only at the reef tack and clew. It had no grommets because they were not needed. That is still where it ripped out because that is the weakest area of a used sail - regardless if it has grommets or not - and that is the point of unusual stress when reefed. Of course stupidity can cause the reef points to be the beginning point of a blow-out but from my experience I do not believe they are always the reason a reefed sail rips.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 09:40:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tim M
 I had a sail on Pearson 28 I owned rip from luff to leech at the reef points in strong winds. It had an in-boom-reefing system that attached only at the reef tack and clew. It had no grommets because they were not needed. That is still where it ripped out because that is the weakest area of a used sail - regardless if it has grommets or not - and that is the point of unusual stress when reefed...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm suspicious that with in-boom reefing, the boom might chafe the sail from luff to leech when reefed, provoking a rip along that line.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 11:50:43

Tim, have you asked a sailmaker?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5383 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2013 : 19:24:57

Short 6" bungies. Keeps the foot neat and has plenty of give.

Edited by - on

tweeet65
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2013 : 13:07:55

WOW! Got more than I bargained for. Thanks all.

Dave (tweet)

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2013 : 15:05:55

That's often the way it goes around here!

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2013 : 09:21:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Short 6" bungies. Keeps the foot neat and has plenty of give.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Exactly, ball cord bungies are fast to install/remove.

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