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First sail of the season! With broach!

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Initially Posted - 06/02/2013 : 12:59:12

We finally got a chance to take SL out for a sail yesterday. The weather wasn't "perfect", but it was close enough, mostly cloudy and in the mid 60's, with light winds.

We'd had problems with the outboard a while back, and I really didn't trust it. However, it ran like a top all day, with nary a hiccup. We raised sails just north of the mouth of the Duwamish River, right where it discharges into Elliott Bay. As usual there was plenty of commercial traffic around us as we were doing so. A tug that was just sort of idling around a barge to our port, another tug tied up to another barge to our starboard, and a tour boat bearing down on our port bow. I had Rita keep close-ish to the bow of the barge to our starboard since I couldn't hear any engine noises from the tug attached to it, so they were less likely to move than the one to our port which was doing unpredictable things, and the tour boat was likely to continue on course to our port. I got the main up, but the wind was almost directly on our nose, so as we passed the bow of the barge, I had Rita come to starboard toward Seattle to fill the sail & take us away from the other two vessels. We ran out several hundred yards to clear the last barge, and then tacked west-ish toward the Duwamish Head Marker.

Unfortunately there was very little wind, so we rarely got above half a knot on our way there, but there was no other commercial traffic to worry about, which is always nice. As we ghosted along we noticed three girls on stand up paddle boards who were actually catching up to us, and we were getting a bit too close to shore and the shoal that the marker marks, so I fired up the Tohatsu & idled out around the marker.

I checked into the marker on Foursquare (I'm still the mayor!) and set a course parallel to Alki beach, roughly ESE. Rita decided that was a good time for a nap, so she curled up on the starboard seat, and we set off on a slow beam reach. The wind started picking up, and instead of ghosting, we were actually making a wake.

Our speed kept building as the wind increased, until we were approaching 5 knots (could have gone faster, but I was deliberately spilling wind to keep the heeling angle down for Rita's benefit). By this time I'd moved my bulk into the starboard catbird seat while she slept on the seat below me. Bliss. Just cruising along on a beam reach, not quite hull speed, but just super pleasant sailing.

The Alki lighthouse was coming up on our port side, and I knew it took about 90 minutes to get back to our slip from that point, so I decided we'd turn around there. Our starboard fenders had wandered around enough to foul the lazy sheet, so I had Rita take the tiller while I worked standing on the stairs in the cabin to clear them. I'd told her to "keep pointing at the north end of Blake Island" (and pointed it out to her), so I wasn't paying tons of attention while working on the fenders. Well, that was a bad mistake, she let our course wander and the wind I'd been spilling all of a sudden was quite well captured, we were healing heavily, everything in the cabin shifted to the port side, she was on her knees in the cockpit shoving the tiller all the way to starboard trying to turn back to port to get back in control, but we were headed for a full-on broach! The boat rounded up completely, we spun probably 160 degrees or so and then things quieted down. I fully expected her to be crying from fear, but came up from her knees laughing! What? We got the boat back on course toward Blake island and she was full of questions. I coached her through a gybe through 180 degrees so we could head back home, and spent most of the rest of the way back discussing what had gone wrong (she was still on the tiller the entire time, so proud of her). We were trying to hold course to go back around the Duwamish Head marker, which lies almost directly in line with the Space Needle, so I had her hold course on that. She understands better how important a course can be, and is learning to use landmarks to do so. We gybed into Elliott bay at the marker and headed toward the mouth of the Duwamish. She was afraid of the gybe, but it went smoothly and we were running before the wind (much warmer & calmer, but riskier point of sail). I went forward to drop the jib uneventfully, then the same with the main, and we motored all the way up to the turn into our marina. Rita generally sets the fenders, and gets the boat poles ready to go. We keep one on each side of the cabin roof in case we need them. Well, she stumbled on our fiberglass one, and into the drink it went. Crap. Spin the boat around and try to grab it before Neptune did. Another sailboat wasn't far behind us and they were bearing down right on top of the boat pole. I was trying to point it out to them, as they may have been able to grab it, but they didn't understand what was going on, and (unsurprisingly) turned to move away from where I was pointing and give us more maneuvering room. Unfortunately, Neptune won, so we're down one boat pole, but easily replaced. We motored in the rest of the way, and while there was a little bit of excitement getting into our slip (current pushing downriver, wind pushing up, always fun), there were several dockmates hanging around to help us get a line onto a cleat.

All in all, it was a good day, especially when she told me on the drive home that she'd had a good time, and had lots of questions. I think the best part of the broach was that it demonstrated to her that the boat wouldn't capsize even in such a violent event (her biggest fear alongside of falling overboard).

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 06/02/2013 13:37:33

TCurran
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Response Posted - 06/02/2013 : 14:07:44

Sounds like a good day...glad Rita was able to learn how stable our boats really are, and how easy it is to get in trouble when you don't mind the helm. Glad she handled it well.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/02/2013 : 14:11:39

Great story!

It took me a while to convince my wife of the same thing... We'd owned a daysailor for 20+ years, and a sunfish before that, so capsizing was something real to her, even though we had never done it. The 1900# hunk of lead on the bottom of our C-25 changed everything, and a couple of exciting moments and some nasty weather passages demonstrated that very well. By then she had learned to feather up with the tiller and how to spill the main, but there was still the subliminal fear of the capsize. I understood--I've felt it when crewing on a catamaran on a high mountain lake when the skipper liked to fly the windward hull at about 45 degrees (which is right on the edge)--it's disconcerting to me when I'm not in control (I had the essentially incidental sheet to the tiny jib) and the spray off the lee hull is like a firehose! Then he fell off!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/02/2013 14:13:34

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/02/2013 : 18:17:03

David,

Thanks for sharing. I'm trying to get a better understanding of what happened to you so I can be better prepared sometime...<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
[br...she let our course wander and the wind I'd been spilling all of a sudden was quite well captured, we were healing heavily, everything in the cabin shifted to the port side, she was on her knees in the cockpit shoving the tiller all the way to starboard trying to turn back to port to get back in control...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From this, it sounds like you had the mainsail out pretty far, and were depowering by allowing it to luff a little bit. So it sounds like her course drifted to port, which fully filled the sail and caused the heel.

If all of this is true, I'm puzzled that she was trying to turn further to port. It seems like turning to starboard, more into the wind, would have de-powered the sail again. My guess is that letting the mainsail out further may not have been an option to de-power, since our boats' swept-back spreaders limit pretty severely how far you can let out the main.

I'm also a little puzzled that the boat didn't just round up itself. Do you have lee helm with the genoa out?

Maybe my assumptions here are wrong, so if you could clarify a bit it would help me learn from this.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/02/2013 18:18:46

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/02/2013 : 18:58:52

Ya... Re-reading, when things in the cabin were shifting to port, that means you were on starboard tack, so "shoving the tiller to starboard" (turning to port) wouldn't help. Is something crossed up in your description?

One lesson I taught my wife very early (Sunfish days), in addition to normal trim and steerage, was if in doubt, let go. If the boat has moderate weather helm, letting go of the tiller turns her up. And of course "letting go" of the mainsheet is more applicable to a Sunfish where you're hanging on the the sheet, but the principle is the same. (And the sail can swing all the say around.)

So, I too am curious.

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/02/2013 : 19:28:38

Let me see if I can clarify, we were on a starboard tack, with the main eased out quite a ways. Our course was roughly ESE, basically a straight line from Alki Point to the north end of Blake Island, with the RACON marker slightly to our starboard and probably 3/4 of a mile away (should be able to find most of this on Google Maps if you want to play along). Wind was pretty much out of the north, I'd guess no more than 10kts (forecast was for variable to 8kts at Alki Point).

I went forward to the cabin stairs to make sure the lazy sheet (starboard) was going to be free to run, because I planned to reverse course and we'd be on a port tack all the way back to Duwamish Head (assuming the wind held).

Rita allowed the course to drift further & further starboard till we ended up pointing roughly ENE? At that point things started happening very quickly and I was holding onto the cabin top & starboard winch while bracing my feet against the hatchboard (just to port of ladder when stowed in the cabin, to keep from being thrown or whacked in the head by the boom because I knew it had lots of leash to use up before it got stopped again if it went. All of the stuff in the cabin fell to port, so we were still heeling on a starboard tack, and Rita said she remembered the port rail being almost in the water (terrifying her because she thought we were going over).

Rita's screaming for directions and I'm telling her to try to turn back to port, but she doesn't know what this means, so I have to translate in my head and tell her to push the tiller away (she was on her knees in the footwell facing starboard). I'm still hanging on trying to figure out what to do, I couldn't reach any sail controls (they were either behind me and I wasn't letting go, or too far to my right. I remember seeing her pushing the tiller as far as it'd go to starboard, and water boiling at the stern in front of the rudder (I worried about it snapping from the force). I occurred to me to tell her to just let go, but I was afraid of the tiller whacking her in the head, I figured it was better to let physics take over while she had control of the tiller, and we could deal with the consequences after things quieted down. By this time, the boat had spun head to wind-ish and I was able to move into the cockpit. I had her slowly turn us to port (thinking back, I should have just finished the "tack" we'd started & we'd have been on our way back to port, but that only occurred to me after we were back on a starboard tack & headed back toward Blake Island). She had a million questions about what had just happened, but I wanted to get us headed home, so we went through a controlled gybe to port maybe 200 yards past Alki Point.

I don't know if I cleared up any of your questions, but that's a bit more precisely what I remember, so let's pick this apart so we get a better understanding. I'll start:

So, that was actually a round up, not a broach, right?

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 04:30:19

Really cool shots... You have a great place to sail. So funny to hear such a difference in 2nd mates.. Mine have always gotten mad if I take the tiller away from them. Really nice mainsail.. full battens. looks well set, the tell tail flowing out, an open leech and very little twist. You should be able to let it out a lot and raise the topping lift and really reduce heel. Make it become a really strong wing for creating forward motion rather than heel. ( as it looks like you are doing )

<< So, that was actually a round up, not a broach, right? >>

I think.....
Rounding up is the boat turning up into the wind. Usually reserved for when the boat heals a lot in the process.
Broaching is essentially excessive healing, or it implies that you have heeled over more to the point of getting the rail under. You could broach without rounding up.

More of the same would be a knockdown, Implying the mast hits the water, or the keel pops out of the water. Even more would be to capsize.

Anyhoo.. I think you might say you broached and rounded up, or as you said.. you simply rounded up.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 05:07:02

I always try to think about making my mainsail shape as similar as it will to the shape of the windsurfing sails I usta use.. as they made little heel and plenty of forward motion. In this image it is hard to appreciate the front of the sail "popped out" as we do once we get up (we hafta pop the sail away from us, the front of the battens pop to the other side) but you can get the idea from the curve of the boom.. Lots of curve up front and then straight back. ( open leech )

Edited by - redeye on 06/03/2013 05:16:06

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 06:23:53

I'm more confused now...

You're moving ESE with a N wind, which puts you on PORT tack, broad reach--wind coming from port, sails set to the starboard side. No? Anyway, if you were on port tack, broad reach, with the main out to starboard enough to spill wind (meaning all the way), and she shifts the course to starboard (southward), then you're approaching a run (and a potential accidental jibe), and the main will fill. Any further, and indeed you might get whacked! But I think we have a discrepancy in the description of the events...

UNLESS....... you were "sailing by the lee", with the main out to port (toward the wind), spilling wind toward the mast, such that turning to starboard filled the sail as if you were on starboard tack... No, I'm not believing that (yet). Although maybe..... That would explain the events that followed (sort of) like stuff falling to the port side...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/03/2013 06:35:43

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 06:47:57

Did he go through a jibe and then turn up on the other side?

Edited by - redeye on 06/03/2013 06:48:56

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 10:32:58

Maybe this'll help:

We were on starboard tack (sails to port, wind coming over the starboard side). Main eased far out spilling wind. Our course wandered north (to starboard), toward the wind (the picture below shows the wind out of due north, but it was more perpendicular to Alki beach, couldn't find an arrow in Paint that I could manipulate for direction). You would think the boat would have just rounded up into the wind, so possibly we'd gotten a gust? Things were happening so fast I don't recall, but I remember watching the wind ripples on the water as we headed toward Alki point & counting down till they hit (what we called a lift when I used to race many moons ago). Since I had my head down looking at stuff very close & wasn't paying enough attention outside the boat (as I should have), when it happened, I was just thinking about the consequences, not the causes.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 12:24:45

OOoooooh... The "other east". (...meaning WEST.) Now we're getting somewhere.

So, with the main well out on a broad reach starboard tack, it seems to me shifting course to starboard (upwind) should have luffed the main--not suddenly filled it. So I'm still confused.

Maybe you had a rogue gust from the NE... From the "boiling" on the rudder, you apparently hadn't lost steerageway, although pushing it hard over (past 45 deg.) can "stall" the rudder, making it more of a brake and reducing its steering effectiveness.

I have one off-the-wall thought (which happened to me on a fluky, partly cloudy day): A "micro-burst." That's a sudden, strong, downward burst of air, with no warning, which makes you wonder where in the hell the wind is coming from! Everything you do turns out to be wrong--sheet out, sheet in, turn this way, turn that way... all hell is breaking loose--sails flogging, speed decreasing... and then just as suddenly, it's over.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/03/2013 12:29:17

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 12:56:11

Don't forget that a sudden gust can make the APPARENT wind direction change even if the ACTUAL wind direction is the same. In other words, if your main is luffing because the wind appears to be coming from the front starboard quarter, a sudden increase in wind speed will make it seem like it's coming from the beam because the net speed vector of apparent wind (from the vantage point of your moving boat) is more heavily weighted by the stronger wind. This could cause your sail to fill with air even though it was luffing before.

However, weather helm should have made turning into the wind easier than your description, which gives me concern about possible lee helm with your sail plan.

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 14:03:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">OOoooooh... The "other east". (...meaning WEST.) Now we're getting somewhere. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And to think, my degree is in land surveying...

Yes the "other east"... Even after I drew the map, the anomaly didn't pop out at me. Sorry for the confusion guys.

As far as luffing the main, I agree, but the boat accelerated in a big way, and heeled way over, so maybe it was a rogue gust or "microburst". Certainly it was scary, but the boat handled it well, nobody went swimming, and she wasn't crying (the biggest success of the day in my opinion). Plus it triggered a lot of questions (and she's reading this thread as well).

Edited by - delliottg on 06/03/2013 14:07:44

shnool
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 20:15:37

Couple other reasons that can make the "gust" take you over... is to have a lot of mainsheet out, or no vang, or both... so the boom can lift.. pocketing the main... causing it to balloon up, and heel more. Bagged sails (outhaul way eased)... worn out sails (that's me until I pull out the racing sails).

Otherwise these guys have you covered.

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/03/2013 : 20:54:15

My vang was snugged up, so I don't think that was it. I did notice that the bail on my main sheet got straightened out (just the keeper ring cotter), I think it got caught as the boom came across, not sure how, I just noticed it was mostly straightened and closed it back with my fingers, but it needs to be replaced.

Edited by - on

glivs
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 05:20:30

Glad Rita handled the event well. Building confidence (and awareness of changing winds) is a major to do even if all that was happening was a bit unnerving at the time. Was she in the catbird seat during the roundup as in your pic? If so, really glad she didn't get hurt.

BTW...Great pics...thanks for sharing. Beautiful area...my daughter took me kayaking early one morning off of Alki beach last fall. Sea lions were feeding on a salmon run and would surface close enough we could almost count their whiskers, give us a look and then move on.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 05:56:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 My vang was snugged up, so I don't think that was it. I did notice that the bail on my main sheet got straightened out (just the keeper ring cotter), I think it got caught as the boom came across, not sure how, I just noticed it was mostly straightened and closed it back with my fingers, but it needs to be replaced.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you sure this wasn't an accidental gybe? With the wind coming off the starboard beam, pulling the tiller hard to starboard (turning the boat hard to port) would cause the wind to come across the stern, causing a gybe.

I've pretty much trained myself to always turn into the wind in time of doubt. There was one time a few years ago when this was a harrowing experience because I was running downwind and had to endure a few seconds of taking a strong gust across my beam with about 35 degees of heel. But your options are always much better heading into a strong wind than they are when you have an imminent gybe in strong wind.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/04/2013 06:00:08

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 06:03:44

I've seen gusty days, the most scary to me, when the wind was calm and you don't have any forward motion and you can watch the cats paws of strong wind on the water approach. They hit you and just about knock you over. With no forward motion there is no way to convert it into turning up, just bam!!

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 07:33:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Was she in the catbird seat during the roundup as in your pic? If so, really glad she didn't get hurt.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Fortunately no, and thanks for your concern. Had she been in the catbird seat, it might have been a different story.

I don't think it was an accidental gybe, unless the wind clocked around nearly 180°, since our bow was pointed into the wind mostly when it was over, and we were going about 5kts when it happened.

I think what needs to happen is for us to simply get her more time on the tiller (and me to pay more attention), so she knows when the boat's trying to tell her things (like the jib/main starting to luff by wobbling the leading edge of the sail for example). She is largely unaware of these things, and I generally don't even think about them anymore, so communicating what to look for takes a bit of effort to think about what she needs to know. She's started reading "The Complete Sailor", which she's only glanced at before, and she's still asking questions about it (and following this thread as well).

Edited by - on

Ape-X
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 09:19:50

...maybe she backwinded the jib causing it to spin??? The windward jib sheet would then keep the jib close hauled, creating the heel you experienced?

I might suggest letting her try a few differnet accidental gybes then, to see what is happening and you can be better prepared to explain what jsut happened for her benefit.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 10:09:39

My immediate thought was "that's it!", but after a moment's thought, I don't think so. If the jib had gotten back-winded, we'd have heeled to starboard not port (and I was bracing my feet against the head's starboard bulkhead) and would have essentially ended up heaved-to (hove-to?) since the main would still have been way out to port.

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