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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Backstay Hoop Corrosion - Nasty!

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britinusa
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Initially Posted - 06/09/2013 : 13:38:21

I had the trunk board out this afternoon tracing down an electrical problem. When I removed the board and looked around with my flashlight, I saw this sitting immediately aft of the board, in front of the Battery Bay.

backstay hoop bolts

First thought was it from the Steering gear (wheel), nope, that looked good. So careful look around and realized it is the <s>Forward</s> Aft Bolt of the Back Stay Hoop - Totally failed!

I'm going to replace it but really glad I found it today and not when raising the mast on our next trip or, worse, while the sails were powered up.

Think I'll use larger backing washers and butyl tape it to prevent future water ingress. I'm assuming it failed due to water ingress on that bolt.

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - britinusa on 06/09/2013 13:46:08

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/09/2013 : 14:05:21

Update: Cannot unscrew the nut on the inside, just used an 8" wrench and it's not moving more than a 1/8 of a turn in either direction. Looks like I'm going to have to grind it off.

backstay hoop

Don't like the idea of using a grinder in the trunk.

underside of backstay hoop

Edited by - britinusa on 06/09/2013 14:28:23

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/09/2013 : 16:22:21

Try a very liberal application of PB Blaster before you resort to cutting it. Let it sit as long as you can, a day isn't too long. Multiple applications may free it up sparing you running a grinder in such a tight area.

If you do decide to cut it, you might consider an [url="http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-68861-8493.html"]oscillating multi-tool[/url] instead of a grinder. I'm pretty sure you can get carbide blades that should go through the bolts pretty quickly without the risk of fire or mess of grinding.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/09/2013 : 17:16:16

I have that tool but not a metal cutting blade.

Will visit HF at lunchbreak Monday to see if they have a suitable blade.

Probably should remove the batteries to eliminate any gas issues.

I think that forward scew is bent locking at it in the trunk.

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 06/09/2013 17:17:51

Al
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Response Posted - 06/10/2013 : 00:15:09

Can't you just use a breaker bar and socket for more leverage and try snapping it off? If the other one broke off by itself, this one shouldn't be much different...

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/10/2013 : 04:07:50

Worth a try Al, I think it is already bending even with my 8" wrench, I'll see how long a lever I can get in there, it's a bit cramped. That method would avoid the need to remove the batteries!

Thanks for the idea.

Paul

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/10/2013 : 08:21:09

Update: Spoke with Catalina Yachts this morning (Florida) and they are already on it. Gotta love that kind of customer service.

Paul

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 13:38:35

First up to the plate was Catalina Direct. I spoke with Kent on Tuesday, they make a kit for C27 that uses the same U-Bolt. Kent put one in the mail for us and it arrived yesterday, Friday! (Regular Mail!!!!)

So today I worked at removing the old one. Could not free the nut and using a wrench extension only bent the screw. Last resort was to take the Rotary Cut off tool to it.

Two minutes of grinding and I had the U cut off the plate from the outside of the fitting. Another three or four minutes and I had ground away the welding where the bolt attached to the plate. Quick pop with a cicular punch and hammer and the blot popped down into the trunk.

Plan was to drill out any wet wood under the deck below the fitting, but it's empty! Literally nothing between the cockpit floor and the liner at that point.

I'm not going to replace the U-Bolt without a filler between the cockpit floor and the liner, but I could be pouring resin & glass filler for days to fill that spot!

Trying to figure out how to make the void solid between the layers.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 14:16:00

Was your boat supplied from the factory with a single backstay, or did you or a PO convert it?

As you have noted, the hollow backing isn't particularly good design, and disappointing if Catalina did that.

I still have my boat's original dual backstay, which splits the load in half and also has the bails oriented transverse to the tension, which should make it a little harder to break through the fiberglass.

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Al
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 14:32:33

Paul, you could leave the void and attach the u-bolt with 4 nuts instead of just 2. If you enlarged the holes in the liner just a little, you could run a nut with a small flat washer up to the bottom side of the cockpit floor (the u-bolt looks like it's threaded almost all the way to the flange). Then make a small plate with 2 holes to attach to the liner and attach the bottom 2 bolts as usual. I would also liberally coat the bottom of the flange with 5200 before final assembly.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 18:04:03

Rick, I saw your split backstay in the images of your bimini. Our bimini is just a few months old and modifying it for split back stay it way out of budget.

Al, I had thought of making a pair of sleeves to fit in the void though larger holes in the liner, but am not convinced of that process yet.

paul

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 18:06:36

I could fill the void with foam and then drill in order to follow the tried and tested method of over size drill and fill.

Paul

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 18:16:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Rick, I saw your split backstay in the images of your bimini. Our bimini is just a few months old and modifying it for split back stay it way out of budget...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not suggesting you change to split, just wondering if the hollow backing was OEM design or aftermarket retrofit.

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Al
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Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 18:26:48

Paul, I thought about foam, but only to create a cavity to pour the filler into: Fill the void with foam, let it dry, then stick a bent coat hanger or whatever you can fit into the holes to scrape, hog out, or whatever to form as big a cavity in the foam as possible, vacuum, then pour in the filler. Sounds like too much trouble for me, though!

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 04:21:00

That was the idea Al.

I'm guessing that the area is void by virtue of it being parallel to the outboard mount drain area. Perhaps the cockpit floor 'filler' is only as far back as the outboard drain area, so it's void for the aft most 4 or 5 inches. Just a guess!

I'll get the foam this morning and proceed.

Thanks for the input guys.

Paul

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 07:47:31

Turned out the void is shallow, probably only about 1/4" so it's more like this...

Underside of liner is cleaned and wiped down with Alcohol wipes, Duct Tape covering the underside of the holes. Top side taped off so that the foam would not get to the gel coat when it expands. Foam applied now have to wait till it cures, label indicates 8 hours, but pretty sure it will be less here in sunny Florida where the temps are up in the mid nineties today.

Now if only I can think of some other uses for the can of foam as it will seal up within a couple of hours!

Paul

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 08:14:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Now if only I can think of some other uses for the can of foam as it will seal up within a couple of hours!

Paul

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Use it to create flotation for whisker pole, spin pole, boat pole, anything hollow. That's been on my todo list for awhile.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/18/2013 : 07:25:39

During the clean out after putting foam in the void I found the real situation.

The Void was only around the bolt holes!

I ran my allen key in a drill to clear out the area for resin, and that's when I realized that my picture is incorrect.

The lower 'liner' is a skin thin coating of resin and Matt on the underside of the balsa that is on the underside of the cockpit floor.

My Allen key broke though that skin thin layer and I could see the nice white balsa around the edges of where I had cleaned out.

My solution has been to tape up the underside of the liner and pour resin into the holes and void from outside in the cockpit.
This will widen stress relief area under the U-bolts and as there will now be solid reinforcing beneath the U-bolts, this problem should not return.

Drilling out the bolt holes tonight.

Paul

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