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jimboryd
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/13/2013 : 12:46:52

Since I will be re-wiring the boat anyway, I figure I may as well replace (upgrade?) the electronics. I'm leaning towards the i40 bidata by Raymarine (speed, depth, log, water temp) for $370 at WM (p39 if you have the 2013 catalog.) I'm also wondering if a wind speed setup is really good to have too? (Or maybe it is a necessity?) I'm trying to keep the price down (don't want to put $10k into it right away before she even gets wet.) Thanks!

Jim R
1977 C25 TR/FK #54

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 12:54:32

Windspeed is fun, but not worth the cost. Wind direction I find it just as easy to look up at the windex as to look at a screen.

I'd suggest considering a multifunction display (aka chart plotter aka GPS) before buying something like the i40. For about the same money you could get a MFD with sonar like the Lowrance Elite 5 (on sale right not at West Marine for $399) or Garmin 541. Speed over ground is generally more useful than speed through water, though having both is the best. The fish finder view under water is a lot more useful than just the depth number that you'll get from the i40.

A MFD will allow you to add almost any sensor that you can consider down the road. For now it'll give you depth and speed over ground, neither of which require drilling holes into your boat and both of which are very useful.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5906 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 16:03:05

It depends on where you sail, and what kind of sailing you do. You don't need a gps to sail a small inland lake, or to sail short distances in local waters. You do need a gps to sail longer distances, or in unfamiliar waters. You often don't need a gps to sail up and down a big lake or bay in deep water, but you do need one when you go up a river, where the deep water meanders.

If you can't think of a specific use you have for the information provided by a certain instrument, the likelihood is that you really don't need it.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 19:40:49

Steve's right (of course)--if you're on a body of water where a chart is helpful, I'd start with a chartplotting GPS and go from there. That gives you speed, which in a lake is likely to be more accurate than you'll get from a mechanical speed log. With a transducer, it can give you depth and water temperature. (Wind information is an expensive add-on that I'll suggest you wait on--I licked my finger and watched my inexpensive windex.)

The price for that Raymarine setup seems excessive for what you'll get as a lake sailor. There are nice fishfinders that show you the bottom (sort of) and its composition, as well as the depth and temperature, for less. But for just depth, you can get it on the GPS display.

So the question is, what are your sailing grounds? And what are your objectives for the instruments--cruising, racing, daysailing,...? That'll help us continue the discussion.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/13/2013 20:12:33

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 20:55:30

I actually would like to cast a vote in favor of a wind sensor. The real value for me is in building a level of confidence with different windspeeds. You could spend years sailing you boat in all different conditions, but if you don't have data points (ie: today I saw 15kts with gusts to 25) you won't be able to relate to weather forecasts when you go sail somewhere else. I installed a raymarine st60 system a few years ago and it has really helped "calibrate" me. When my wife and I bareboated in the BVI the weather forecasts were much more meaningful.

Here's the rub, it took me almost 2 years of watching ebay auctions before I found a used one for a really cheap price. I am not sure I ever would have installed one if I had to pay full price. Some of the new TackTic systems are totally wireless which would be real nice. They communicate wirelessly and have a battery and solar power.

Also, I can tell you that after coming in from a day of sailing, other guys in the club that don't have sensors give wind speed estimates that are all over the map. Sure, I am on a lake and the speed can vary quite a bit from one spot to the next, but there is one guy who always thinks it was blowing about 10 kts harder than it really was and another guy who is consistently 5 kts low. Both of these guys tell me they don't need a sensor to know how hard its blowing, they've got years of experience to rely on!

Obviously, for wind direction, a windex is fine.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 22:22:19

You can get a handheld wind speed sensor for under $100 if wind speed is the main goal. It won't be going all of the time, but it's a useful tool for learning.

I put together my own wind instrument (using a Davis house-mounted device), but I don't think I'd have paid for a new one. It took a lot of time, but the coding and stuff was pretty fun for me.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 04:13:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 It depends on where you sail, and what kind of sailing you do. You don't need a gps to sail a small inland lake, or to sail short distances in local waters. You do need a gps to sail longer distances, or in unfamiliar waters. You often don't need a gps to sail up and down a big lake or bay in deep water, but you do need one when you go up a river, where the deep water meanders.

If you can't think of a specific use you have for the information provided by a certain instrument, the likelihood is that you really don't need it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And (hoping the Admiral doesn't read this) if your sailing partner needs a gps to find the back yard!

We have the ST40 Wind & Speed (TriData) system as well as Garmin GPS. It makes life a whole lot easier for the Admiral and that is a huge plus.

Do a search on Ebay for Raymarine ST40, they have been replaced by ST60's but I had my wind meter repaired last year by Raymarine after 7 years of use/abuse (the transducer hangs off the top of the mast at 60mph!)

Paul

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 05:43:16

When I started sailing in small sailboats, I had no instruments and I did fine. Then as I progressed to larger sailboats with increased responsibility, increased sailing distance away from home port, having indicators (compass, depth, wind direction) were definitely beneficial. Depending on addl needs and thru the years, increased available dough, a GPS vs charts, knotmeter, etc prove useful. Add a VHF base and/or portable radio and then besides a feel for wind speeds, you have what's predicted for next few hrs, day and days. A wind speed inicator and some addl electronics are definitely not necessary and will not tell you what the wind conditions will be in the next hour or two but will tell you exactly what it is at present. My feeling is that if the cost is not an issue, it has it's benefits. But you also indicated you wanted to keep your costs down while the boat has not yet got wet. Based on your words, I would hold off on the wind speed indicator unless it is part of an electronics bundle which then makes sense based on getting an electronic wind indicator and etc electronics. But if the electronic wind indicator is a separate purchase that can be easily added later, I would hold pff for now and go sailing and then see if you still feel like getting it. I know that at times when I was waiting for the day the boat would go in the water/buuying a boat, it was also the time I was most vulnerable to running up the costs partially due to the anticipation of the big day when launching the boat.

Edited by - on

jimboryd
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:20:37

Thank you everybody! I'll check out the Lowrance and Garmin ones (thanks!) For the foreseeable future, I/we will be sailing on the Miss. River pool 4 (which according to the local nav map, is a flooded section of the river about 45 miles long by roughly 2 to 5 miles wide along that distance.) Currently, the boat has a Signet Smartpak, vintage 1988 (surveyor couldn't get it to do anything) and there is a wind vane "thingy" on top of my mast but what, if anything, it is hooked up to? So I'm guessing for now I can get by with just a depth and speed indicator (water temp would be nice, so we know if we're gonna freeze jumping in for a swim or not) and some sort of GPS?

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:24:13

The MFD/GPS/ChartPlotter option will get you depth and speed and GPS all for under $500 for a lower end one.

Most sailboats have a windvane on top of the mast (normally called by it's brand name, Windex). It usually isn't hooked up to any electronics, you just look up there to see it. I honestly find that faster than reading wind direction off of the electronics.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4311 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 13:37:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 You can get a handheld wind speed sensor for under $100 if wind speed is the main goal. It won't be going all of the time, but it's a useful tool for learning.

I put together my own wind instrument (using a Davis house-mounted device), but I don't think I'd have paid for a new one. It took a lot of time, but the coding and stuff was pretty fun for me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd be interested in hearing about your Davis setup (in another thread). I've got a Weather Monitor II sitting in storage and I've thought about rigging it up on the boat.

I also have a Weather PRO weather station on a mast in the backyard.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 06:29:54

For inland, a fishfinder with water temp is useful, HH GPS like David Stinkpotter's Nuvi should give you great resolution (you should have WAAS on the Mississippi), a new windex windvane is nice, a built-in compass is a necessity and a handheld compass is nice, a handheld windspeed indicator will do just fine.
For windspeed, I still use the Beaufort scale (Force 1, Force 2, ...) Observing the effect of the wind on the state of the water, the waves, nearby trees and land can be incredibly accurate (+/- 4 mph) if you have studied the scale and see the clues: occasional whitecaps, small branches in motion…
I have and use a handheld windspeed indicator, but if oldschool works, why not use it?

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 09:35:33

Beaufort is pretty much all you need. I agree with Bruce. You get really good at knowing just what 12 knots will do, since that's when whitecaps begin to appear. We sailed for 15 years without wind instruments, and have, for the past 15 years sailed WITH one, which I rarely bother to look at.

Learn windspeeds "on your neck" and save some $$. :)

I find boat speed, even after 30 years of sailing, to be MUCH harder to judge. We sail in coastal waters with currents, and SOG and STW are BOTH very necessary.

Edited by - on

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