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Mast sail track is spreading

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SteveG
1st Mate

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51 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/13/2013 : 17:27:58

Hi All,

I haven't posted on this board for a while, but I have a problem I hope you can help with. The sail track on the mast beneath the sail lug slot is starting to spread. The sail lugs are popping out. It appears that the boom gooseneck has caused the track to spread. I tried banging it back into shape at the beginning of the season but 3 trips out and it was back where it was. I'm concerned that the boom is going to pop out. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve the problem?

Thanks,

SteveG297

Steve Gravel

Portsmouth, RI
C25 - 'Lady Jane'
SR/FK

Edited by - on

binky
Navigator

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USA
115 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 18:05:42

My first thought for a quick repair would be to make two "u" shaped straps. Fit the straps above and below gooseneck, drill holes through strap and then drill/tap screw holes in mast. Attach accordingly. This won't fix the problem but may delay further spreading.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 20:28:16

I'm trying to figure out why--it seems counter-intuitive that the boom would be pulling out with such force when sailing... But regardless, my concern is that an aluminum extrusion will weaken substantially with each bend, both outward and back inward. Each time you bend it back, it will bend out more easily--and eventually break.

So first, I want to figure out why this is happening--one random thought is that your out-haul isn't tensioned so that the sail tends to push the boom toward the mast... If we can figure that out, I'll probably reluctantly suggest your mast may have served its sentence. (However, I haven't heard of this happening, so.......

)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/13/2013 20:33:08

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2013 : 22:06:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveG
 The sail track on the mast beneath the sail lug slot is starting to spread...It appears that the boom gooseneck has caused the track to spread.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have an idea why your slot might be widening, although it's not much more than a WAG (Wild A.. Guess).

I bought a replacement gooseneck fitting, because that's too important a part to not have a spare, and because there's an awful lot of stress concentrated there. And when I was playing with the new one I noticed it binding when it swung to either side. Sure enough, when I checked the old one, I noticed the metal was deeply worn where the boom-end casting was hitting the casting that slides in the sail track. This would cause the slider casting to pry against the sail track when the boom is hard over.

Rather than try to describe it any further in words, look at the following pictures. First, here's the new unit; although the 2-dimensional picture doesn't clearly illustrate the conflict, you can see the two castings touching:

To see what this produces over time, here's a picture of the old slider; the worn area is a clearly visible lens-shaped area scalloped out of the cutaway behind the hinge:

Until that area gets worn away the boom-end casting is unable to swing all the way over, and the slider has to pivot in the sail slot for the boom to swing any farther.

Here's how I relieved the new unit to prevent this; it looks pretty radical, but it's not much more than was minimally necessary:

By the way, if you're concerned about my having weakened the casting, look at it this way: if this had been so tightly engineered that there wasn't sufficient excess capacity for this mod, the engineers would probably have caught this conflict. I'm pretty sure this was engineered in the 'classic' technique of "make it a little bigger than you think you need, and then make it a little bigger than that." Besides, after the original unit did all that grinding, to remove that much metal, it was still quite functional.

Just the same, I'm going to get another unit to keep as a back-up.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else has observed this. It's probably not something you would notice on your boat unless you look for it. Steve, if your gooseneck slider shows the same worn spots, this just might account for the spreading of that slot.

Whatever the cause, I think your options are either mount a fixed gooseneck in place of the slider (many boats came this way), or take the mast completely apart and switch everything end-for-end. You'd have to cut a new entry for the slugs, and you'd have to fasten a set of gates across the old slug entrance to keep the headboard slugs from falling out of the track when the sail is fully raised. Oh, and you'd have to move the spreader brackets. Come to think of it, this option is probably too much work to consider. Just go with the fixed gooseneck:

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1617&ParentCat=149

But, as Dave B. pointed out, if the metal has been distorted that much, especially if it's been bent back and forth, it has become seriously distressed and weakened. Whatever the cause, I don't think you can ignore this and hope it won't get worse.

Good luck.

Edited by - Lee Panza on 06/13/2013 22:15:54

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 04:10:23

I think Lee is on the right track here, Something is prying the track open and a binding Gooseneck would be my first guess unless you have an enormous amount of mast bend aft.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 04:26:40

LEE: Excellent write-up! I would make the mod just as you have, beautiful job. Chamfering the other edge looks like it would weaken the gooseneck. Note his use of radii and round sweeping curves to avoid stress risers.

STEVE G: Are you noticing the spreading after sailing with the main sheeted out far? It looks like there is plenty of swing available to avoid that condition, sheeting out that much likely puts the sail hard against the spreaders anyway???

Edited by - on

SteveG
1st Mate

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51 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 05:34:41

Dave B: The outhaul is typically tight. The foot of the sail is free, so it's lose most of the time even when I tighten the outhaul. I don't race with the boat, it's just a pleasure sailboat, so tuning the rigging for optimal speed is not a priority.

Lee: I haven't looked that closely at the gooseneck, but I think you've hit on the cause of the problem. When I sail down wind I tend to let the sail out quite a bit and the boom is probably creating some leverage at the joint between the gooseneck and the slider. This would cause the gooseneck to push out at the opposing edge of the sail track.

Moe'Uhane: I haven't paid attention to when this problem occurs, only that it does occur.

Guys: I think Tim's suggestion to install the fixed gooseneck is probably the one I'm going to take. Changing out and modifying the slider like Tim did won't fix the metal fatigue that's already ocurred. Once I fix the boom in place I can then bend the track back enough so the sail lugs don't pop out. The metal should be strong enough to hold the lugs since there isn't any tension on them when they are in the stowed position. Since that's the plan, I should probably get better gates for the mast. I have some that I hand made and they aren't the best. Unfortunately, when I remove them I will have some extra holes. Now I'll need to fill them in. Any suggestions for that?

Thanks for the help, I knew I could count on support from this crew even though I've been away from it for a long time.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 07:02:59

I didn't see the fixed gooseneck suggestion, but I like it for the reason you mentioned. That takes away one method for tensioning the luff, but you can still do it with the halyard--just keep your slugs clean and lubricated. I led my main halyard back to a clutch at the cockpit, didn't put a winch there, and was able to tighten the luff adequately with a good yank.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 08:02:16

That part looks exactly like the sliding goose on the Capri 25.
The fixed goose appears to not have that issue...
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=292

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1109

Edited by - on

SteveG
1st Mate

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51 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 12:19:39

Dave, Tim mentioned the fixed gooseneck in his comments and added a link. I added a cunningham to my setup a while back and can use that to tension the mains'l luff as required. I'm also going to upgrade the mast gates from my home made version to the ones they have on the site. They look to be a little sturdier. After all of that I should feel a little more comfortable while out on the water.

Thanks again,

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:39:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Tim mentioned the fixed gooseneck in his comments and added a link.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think you mean Lee.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4311 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2013 : 13:15:27

Maybe this issue is the reason they went to the fixed goose-neck? If not, why did they come put with the fixed goose-neck?

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 16:17:52

Your boat does have aft lowers doesn't it?

Edited by - on

SteveG
1st Mate

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51 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2013 : 16:30:26

If you're talking about the standing rigging, then yes. It has fwd and aft lowers and a split backstay.

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