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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

C250 Wing keel in heavy air

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Gorgesailor
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2013 : 11:34:56

I am a newer sailor, other than crewing, an am considering the purchase of a 2005 C250 wing keel for use in the Columbia River Gorge. I would like some feedback on how the boat would handle our normal 15-25 mph winds with large swells. local sailors recommend a minimum ballast-to-weight ratio of 40% - more than the C250.

I understand the C250 is a cruiser and not a racer. I am interested in buying a safe boat with a reasonable amount of performance that my partner and I can learn to sail. We are not interested in racing the boat. (I would make sure the rigging is adequate for higher winds etc.)

If anyone has input on whether I should consider the boat further or if another would be more appropriate, I would appreciate the advice. (The C27 is a common
recommendation.)

Thank you for your assistance.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 14:49:47

Mark,
Welcome to the forum! We have at least one other Columbia River sailor on here, [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=3314"]CWStrang[/url], and he's got a C-250 WK as well, only a year older than yours. You might try contacting him from the link above to see what he has to say about sailing one of our boats on the river.

We sail ours on Puget Sound, and it's a tall rig, so we're fairly easily over powered. Fortunately this usually isn't the case during the summer, where if anything we need a bigger jib (we have several, but my wife is very anti-heeling). We've got two reefs in the main, and a 70% storm jib we can hank on if the 110% gets to be too much. Our boats sail better if they're kept somewhat flat, so you don't gain anything by driving the leeward rail into the water anyway.

Edited by - delliottg on 08/26/2013 14:50:10

Gorgesailor
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 16:12:44

Thank you David. I appreciate your thoughts.
Mark

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 16:35:59

I agree with David. Our boats sail well flat.I have a 135% percent Genoa and a standard mainsail. Yesterday in 10 knot winds' I shortened the genoa to roughly 100% and reefed the main and was making 5 knots comfortably. A criticism of our boat is its high freeboard. It makes it a bit more tender in higher wind. While I wouldn't be afraid to sail my boat in 20 to 25 not winds' I think it would be more work than fun.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 16:41:37

Welcome... you are among a fine bunch of people who combined, I'm sure, will provide valuable insights.

Our 1995 C151WB spent the first 8 years of its life on the Columbia around the Portland area. According to the p/o it performed well, was a pleasure to sail with its standard rig and 110 hank-on jib. Even with one reef point it easily handles 20-25 kn winds in choppy conditions but likes 10-15 nm a lot.

An interesting WB versus WK debate regarding tenderness comes and goes on this forum.

During the last 10 years, we learned to appreciate the boat for its spaciousness, cruising ability on/off the trailer and... a real forgiving attitude towards a new or in-experienced crew.

Edited by - on

Gorgesailor
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2013 : 23:45:33

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I suppose this is the classic question of having fun cruising around with friends versus higher-wind sailing. I live in the Columbia River Gorge ( east of Portland) because it it is one of the best areas in the world for windsurfing and kiteboarding due to the high winds and large swells. But cruising around on lower wind evenings (10-20) looks like a lot of fun.

Any other thoughts are appreciated. I also appreciate that regular forum members have taken the time to respond to a new member. Thank you.

Mark

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 05:37:40

I love the boat. We like the roomy, comfortable cockpit. The stern seats are a really fun place to sit. And the cabin is large enough for a couple to go for a few nights.

The boat is happiest at 10-15 winds, and can be sailed effectively at 20. Aside from a brief squall at 32, I've never sailed this boat above 20. (I've sailed larger charters at 25-30.) With this boat, I would advise to be sure you have a 2nd reef rigged appropriately for those wind speeds.

We reef early and often, typically at 8-10 knots. But our boat easily reaches hull speed at 8-10 with the reef. It's faster with less sail because the boat is flatter and there's less weather helm, so less drag from the rudder. With the full main, rounding up becomes a significant problem above 12 kt, so reefing is a requirement.

I'm not sure any boat of this size would be comfortable sailing frequently above 20 knots. If you're determined to stay small, and doing daysailing instead of cruising, a racing design like a Capri 25 or 26 might be better (though I have no personal experience with that. Maybe Shnool can help). Lower freeboard and a fin keel might provide for better stability in higher winds. I'm sure there are other brands the would fit this design criterion, but I'm not a racer so I'm not familiar with them.

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/27/2013 05:39:07

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 10:14:02

From what I've read here, the C25 is a little less tender. Fin keel provides a better heavy weather ability....

...and shameless plug, if you want an older C25, I know of one available now....

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 11:36:28

Agree with the previous posters. As long as you are willing to adjust sail the C250 will do fine in a variety of conditions. The boat likes to sail fairly flat although I can attest to some great sailing with her well tilted over. I installed two line reefing to get a well shaped main under reef.

And as long as we're making shameless plugs I know of a C250 WK that is for sale just 100 miles south of Portland.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 08/27/2013 11:39:06

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2013 : 22:56:15

Sailboats are compromises in their designs, so no design fits all sailing venues, needs or wants.

You have identified some of your needs and outlined the venue. Frankly, I'm thinking a boat with less freeboard, a little stiffer and maybe even a full keel design.

Expanding on those, a boat with generous freeboard such as the 250 with its pocket cruiser character will be harder to dock in the kinds of winds outlined as well a stiff boat will tolerate the conditions better. Last... a boat that has more character towards a full keeled design would be much more comfortable in the chop.

You didn't outline that a spacious interior was a need, but rather a design to learn the sailing art and on a somewhat aggressive venue.

Though I own a 250 that I consider ideal for my sailing needs, I honestly don't think the 250 is the best choice for yours.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2013 : 07:24:31

I was going to say pretty much what Arlyn said (except for the "own a C-250" part)... I rarely faced your wind conditions, and my Admiral and crews weren't into that, but I suspect my C-25 standard rig, fin keel, would have been more suitable. The 1900# fin keel compares to the C-250's 1050# wing, and overall displacement is greater on the 25. So the ride is going to be stiffer and more comfortable. (Good-condition sails also help.) Still, in your venue, I'd have added the second reef. I had roller furling, which I'd demand in your conditions, both for reducing sail (although I reduced the main first or left it on the boom), and for the simple pleasures of unrolling and rolling up. We spent a lot of nice evenings on the genny alone.

Edited by - on

Gorgesailor
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2013 : 18:04:05

Good thoughts - I guess sailing is like everything in that you can't have it all. In my case, the conditions will likely dictate many of the compromises. It just looks like so much fun to cruise around in the C250. I can see why you all like them so much!
Mark

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2013 : 12:56:13

I do allot of sailing out of Narragansett Bay and the Cape Cod Islands with my family of five. We have been out all together for as much as a six day cruise. I have been in proper NE squalls and over 8' seas without much difficulty. Yes- you must learn when to reef and when to take down the sails all together. You must also spend time learning how to handle in tight areas, or find a more forgiving mooring area. This said, the old rule of thumb to stow the sails when in wind conditions exceed hull length is reasonable for any boat regardless of pedigree.

If you are like me, finding the right boat is one part dream and one part financial reality. I suspect you'll find that the C 250 is the most "newer" boat for the least amount of money on the market today.

Vern Wright
"Hajime"
97 Catalina 250 WK TR

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.