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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Rolling up the Jib

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philagnes2003
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2013 : 02:23:59

What is the proper technic when it is windy and we need to roll up the jib? We point into the wind; the sheets go crazy, so we try to tame them by putting tension on them. Sometimes it takes quite a lot of effort and we need to use the winch.

My Jib does not always roll smoothly more of an “oval” feel then round, if you know what I mean.

Mac's Bounty
2003 C250 WK #679
Orient Harbor, NY

If you think you can, or think you can't, pretty soon you find out your are right! H.F.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 03:53:09

Phil, Furling the Jib should be an easy event. If you are going to reef the jib by furling it in, do it early. Here's how we handle it:
Ideally we would be on a Port tack, having the wind coming over the port side of the boat frees up the port side winch. But if on a Stbd tack, then cross sheet the jib by keeping tension on the port sheet while removing it from the winch, then take the line over to the Stbd winch and make it tight, this frees up the port winch for the furling line.

Now release the furling line from the cleat on the port side, keeping the line under tension if the jib is already partially furled, and wrap it 3 or 4 times around the winch onto the self tailer.

Now you can winch in the furling line to roll up the jib, ease the jib sheet on the stbd winch to allow the sail to furl in.

By keeping tension on the jib sheet while winching in the furling line, the jib will roll up nice and tight, a definite 'must do'. Leaving the jib rolled up loosely will leave it subject to getting damaged if the wind pipes up. Very early on with our almost new C250, we moored in a quiet little mooring lake in the keys. Over night an unexpected storm blew up and our loose jib started to open at the top of the furler! You do not want to hear that noise! I could imagine another 30 minutes of slapping around like that would have torn the sail.

So wrap it it tight.

Paul

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 04:30:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by philagnes2003
Sometimes it takes quite a lot of effort and we need to use the winch.

My Jib does not always roll smoothly more of an “oval” feel then round, if you know what I mean.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As Paul mentioned above. Furling in the jib should be quite smooth and easy. You should not be using winch to furl it in. I use winch just to put some tension on the sheets to roll it in nice and tight.

Pick a day at the marina and unfurl and furl your jib and see what's going on.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 08:57:40

I don't agree that the winch should not be used to furl the headsail. The general does not have the hand or arm strength to roll in the jib when under the wind pressure while sailing. It is important that if using the winch, you do it slow and under control. I modified the furling line routing to make the winch much easier to use. The system we use is to ease the jib out until it just begins to flap. Then tighten the sheet slightly to smooth out the sail. The general then removes the furling line from the cleat and wraps it around the selftailer three times and begins to crank the winch. As she cranks I slowly release the sheet to maintain the sail tight. When the headsail is were we want it I ease off the sheet to attain slight flap while she moves the furling line back to the cleat.

Edited by - frog0911 on 09/23/2013 09:00:39

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 09:09:26

I'd be concerned that using a winch on the furling line could create excess tension that might cause it to jam in the coil on the furler drum. I was always able to furl by pulling the line by hand. I liked to keep the genoa filled if possible, with the sheet eased as you would on a broad reach. That allowed the sail to wrap onto the furler smoothly and tightly with no luffing drama--essentially the wind created the tension. My genny rolled onto the furler from the port side, and the furling line was on port, so I found it easiest to furl on starboard tack so the furling line and sheet were on the same side.

Likewise, it's important to keep some tension on the furling line when you're pulling the jib out, so the line coils tightly and evenly on the drum. (A glove is helpful.) It's also important to have a proper lead angle to the drum so the line comes in perpendicular to its center, preventing wraps from bunching up at the top or bottom.

I know Catalina installed CDI furlers at the factory--I'm not aware that they included CDI's roller bearing option as standard. I've heard many reports that the bearing option signficantly eases the rolling up process--several people here have done the upgrade and can offer their opinions. (I didn't have a CDI.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/23/2013 09:16:48

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 10:28:14

Whenever I am dropping or fuling a sail under adverse conditions I just do the bare minimum to get the sail stored and then raise (or unfurl) the sail when I am back at the slip and then flake (or furl) the sail under a more controlled environment. Using the winch may make it manageable but that is a whole lot of cranking when you can just ease the sheets and pull away.

Edited by - on

djbano
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 08:37:33

If the wind has piped up and furling is difficult, fall off onto a broad reach till the jib is in the lee of the main. Without pressure on it, it will roll easy with or without roller bearing.

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 09:31:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jerry, I like your solution to the line from the furler cleat to the winch moving it to the block on the stanchion.

I have a cam cleat that I intended to put forward of the cleat, but using the block like you have would make it even more effective.

The cam cleat will have to be offset slightly, but I can work that out.
Thanks for posting that.

Paul

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 13:12:07

Paul, if you take a good look at the cleat provided you will see it is smaller in the front end. Notice that we only take two turns on it to hold the furler. Until you get a block installed, run the line around the stanton and rap it around the cleat. You will find that pulling it off the cleat is impossible without unwinding it. That is why no cam cleat was installed. on Penny II.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 15:50:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 Paul, if you take a good look at the cleat provided you will see it is smaller in the front end...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...called a jam cleat.

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 18:39:20

Cam Cleat!

Paul

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 18:54:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 Paul, if you take a good look at the cleat provided you will see it is smaller in the front end...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...called a jam cleat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll try to get a pic next time I'm at the boat, but this year I routed the furling line through the center of the jam cleat, with a figure 8 stopper knot on the end to keep it from coming back out. Then, when I want to secure the furling line at a particular position (such as reefing down a couple wraps), I wrap the furling line from the center of the cleat right around the forward part of the cleat, so that the jamming horn immediately causes it to grab. From that point, the typical reverse hitch to the aft horn secures it well.

The benefit of doing it this way (through the center and around the front) is that it is very quick to secure and release with only the slightest motion, which makes for very precise adjustment of the wrap.

The other benefit is that the jam cleat acts as a fairlead for the line, and could actually lead to the winch quite nicely without the need for a block. However, I have not actually done that because I've never had a problem pulling it by hand, even with the slight friction of going through the middle of the jam cleat.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 19:34:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa

Cam Cleat!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No, jam cleat. One horn forms a wedge so that when you wrap a full turn round the cleat, the line jams itself into the wedge, as shown in Frog's first photo. Thus you don't need to take the time to make a "locking turn," or to unlock it--you just unwind it.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/24/2013 19:36:09

britinusa
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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 19:54:45

Gotta love ambiguity.

My concept is to install a Cam Cleat in front of the existing furler Cleat and use the block as shown by Jerry.
Then after winding in the furler, just slip the line into the Cam Cleat and release it from the winch.
Then take up on the existing cleat.

The current issue is that the line from the bullnose ring on the top side of the cabin top to the existing cleat and then to the winch is not an easy one. But using Jerry's block, it will ease the line to the winch and using my concept of the cam cleat will make it easy to move the furler line off the winch without releasing the tension. This is important when using the furler to reef in the jib, but also works when stowing the jib on the furler for the day.

Paul

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 20:47:08

Paul, I also used a cam cleat (with a fairlead on top) for that application. It's by the bottom edge of this photo, next to the bimini pole.

But I didn't need to use the winch.

For general information, there is an advantage of a jam cleat over a cam for some applications: To release a line from a cam cleat, if it has been under substantial load, you need to pull it in the direction that opens the cams (against the load). If the load is great, that may become difficult or nearly impossible. To release from a jam cleat, you just "unwind" the line until it pops out of the wedge. I only mention this because it can be useful for other purposes, even if not critical for a furling line.

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philagnes2003
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2013 : 02:23:57

Thanks everyone, I can't wait until I sail again and try what was learned. We most likely have 1 or 2 sails left this season.

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2013 : 17:10:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa

Cam Cleat!

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<center>

</center>

Can cleat!

In order to get her to let me take that picture, the Admiral made me promise that I would not allow her to become the "butt" of any jokes. Of course, I just broke my promise.

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TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2013 : 17:12:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 ...I'll try to get a pic next time I'm at the boat, but this year I routed the furling line through the center of the jam cleat, with a figure 8 stopper knot on the end to keep it from coming back out. Then, when I want to secure the furling line at a particular position (such as reefing down a couple wraps), I wrap the furling line from the center of the cleat right around the forward part of the cleat, so that the jamming horn immediately causes it to grab. From that point, the typical reverse hitch to the aft horn secures it well...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Here's what I was trying to describe:

<center>

</center>

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